Judder problems on 1080p LCD HDTV
Hi All,
I have done a lot of research already but I still need some questions answered.
1) I have a new 120hz 1080p Samsung Panel KOGAN 40 inch. Its a cheap Australian brand.
Strange thing is some tools like Pstip report its a Targa LCD16. Targa looks like some dodgy cheap UK Brand.
That could just be the EDID that is packaged with it and the panel could still be Samsung. no idea.
Something that is confusing, is windows says that 13xx X 768 or some such resolution, is the recommended resolution and that its native.
Why is this? I thought LCDs were only 1 native resolution and surely it would be the highest. Does that mean that the TV is actually accepting a higher resolution signal and down sampling it to
the native resolution which is lower than 1080p (much lower)? The Text looks shit on 1080p which it shouldnt if its native right?
My desktop BENQ 22inch 1080p looks clean as. And all computer content looks great at 60hz. (yes i can see judder on test content on my pc but its consistent).
2) I have Xbox 360 and PC both hooked up via HDMI (have tried D-SUB VGA as well, but its not any better).
3) The TV has some built in "motion max" crap for interpoliation but no option to turn it off
4) I have tested with a variety of content and players.
From what I understand there are a few different problems, Soap opera effect, the slippery feeling of too many interpoliated frames, and judder, an issue relating to
the TV trying to match the source content to the display refresh rate using various pull down techniques or doubling of frames.
The first thing I noticed was using any normal player like VLC or Media Player Classic, with both SD content like say a recent True Blood episode Season 3, which is semi decent ripped xvid,
and say a good 720p mkv of True Blood, or Wall-e 720 p all had judder. VLC is great on the PC, but I do agree its slower and therefore not optimal, so I moved on from that assuming my dual core AMD (which is definately powerful enough)
might be causing some rendering issues. I read that CORE AVC is the shit and also Shark 007 pack is a great way to get things to clean state.
Neither really helped.
I then started thinking, maybe there was another issue and once I read more I came to the conclusion that the best way to prevent the TV from doing its own judder fail, was to deliver it the most accurate multiple of its refresh rate as possible.
I read about reclock and then found that XMBC (im a long time fan for the original xbox) and Boxee (this is where I want to be now), both included more advanced A/V sync stuff.
So after lots of testing this is what I concluded.
1) The TV offers, 60, 50, and 25 interlaced (theres a few weird ones as well like 59 hertz and 29 hertz but im not sure they will give good results).
2) Setting the TV to 50hz seems to provide the best results, its possible this is because most of the content is either 23.97 (24fps) or 25fps.
3) Using Boxees A/V Sync on resample video, medium ish seems to give ok results for something like Alice in wonderland 1080p.
The cpu is like 50% so I cant imagine its the CPUs problem but im still getting judder.
4) XBMC (which I understand is the core of Boxee) seems to give better results on non 1080p content, but it wont play anything 1080p because the CPU utilization is around 90%+ and it
seems to have trouble rending the full amount of frames.
In the END all I want is non judder on my high def and standard def movies.
The XBOX 360 seems to show judder in 1080p (I havent tried 1080i but I cant imagine the tv will do anything better with a bunch of interlaced frames)
but its less annoying in games because so much stuff is going on, and there arent many paning shots.
There seems ot be lots of different descriptions of judder, but jsut to let you know mine, basically every now and then it kinda slows down and then speeds up, its distracting and annoying.
Where as say if I watch a sample video like 24v30v60.avi I can see the frame rate issues on my 22 inch desktop LCD but its constant and therefore not ANNOYING during playback.
If anyone has any advice I am keen to hear it.
I am willing to use Ubuntu if its going to help, but I doubt it.
A fresh install of windows with no codecs and Boxee or XBMC might be a good idea.
1) What I want to know is... is this problem common (im reading it everywhere but so many different descriptions.)
2) What is the best refresh rate I should be running it at (and why cant i do 120hz in windows, wouldnt that be the best, surely if i had enough CPU power it would be better if the player did the frame rate fixing before the TV got handle of it)
I know some people cant see judder, but some people cant tell when aspect ratios are wrong, or when audio is out of sync or colour spaces.
I am not a n00b like these people, and judder gives me the absolute shits.
I dont remember ever seeing this problem on my Mates 40inch Bravia (a few years old) which is probably 60hz, but I will test it more closely now.
If I had known about this BS I would have done more research, but I thought, how could the industry possibly be selling so many TVs which are absolute dogshit for all content except Sports.
WOW sports.. like i give a flying f**k. :P
Besides I noticed minor judder on SBS HD (Australis HD channel for the World Cup).
Also if 24 goes into 120hz 5 times, then it should be great for 24 content and surely I can have boxee or xbmc slow down the 25 content to 24 for it to be great there too.
ARGHHHHH!!
Brand new tech shouldnt be this frustrating.
Sorry for my rant, but I have so many unanswered questions and confusion over this whole topic.
Also, it might a good idea if the Boxee help pages actually explained what all the A/V sync options do, rather than just re-stating their names.
E.G. The is A/V Sync option, turns A/V sync on and off. Yes I figure thats what it does!!!
Looking forwards to getting some help from some experts here on the forum.
Cheers,
Samurai
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For more research on what others have to say or experience, please search the forums.
Originally Posted by samuraixp
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