Two questions...

[usminion]

I have used XBMC for over a year now and have found that Boxee is better in certain circumstances. Thank you to the loyal developers behind this project. Your time has been well spent.

My first question is, I've read over and over that Boxee provides enhancements to team-xbmc based on their project's user requests. The big difference between XBMC and Boxee is its online content friendliness (native support for flash, silverlight, etc.). Why hasn't this been merged back into the XBMC trunk? There is little doubt in my mind that this question has been asked before but frankly it is getting too late for me to do the necessary research to find the answer. If there is a solid answer somewhere, I'd appreciate a link.

As for my second question, why has Boxee "forgotten its roots" so to speak? When I say that I mean, why has Boxee limited the user contribution branch that came from XBMC? XBMC has a three-tiered approach which separates GUI design from application logic and content hosting. I've written several python plugins over the past year which I know are currently supported by Boxee but seemingly not for long. Please forgive my frankness, but I don't understand why a plugin developer should have to bear the responsibility of building a "skin" for their app. I have been very content with the current Boxee skin over the past few weeks and to port my plugins over, it seems unreasonable to have to build the skin XML to allow my applications to display as I would expect. Perhaps a screen builder would be in order to shield users that have little interest in building overly complex user interfaces from having to do the dirty work of a graphic artist. Having only dabbled in Boxee for a couple weeks, it is possible that I have overlooked such a hidden treasure however I doubt it. As a software engineer by trade I'm willing to offer my services in building such a tool, but I wanted to verify that something wasn't already in development or available and that others would find it useful before wasting my time.

Again thank you to the hard working minions behind the scenes that have made Boxee the useful project that it is today, and please do not misunderstand my intentions. I only intend to improve my understanding and the work required by other developers today and in the future. Please let me know if there is any way at all I can contribute to this thriving project.

usminion

[Fuzzgtp]

Cant answer question one.
As far as question 2, there has been discussion about a editor http://forum.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=14747, but I don't think it has gone any further. Likely, because once you get started, the skin issue isn't as daunting as it looks.

Also, I'm not sure what kind of plugins your building, but if it's mostly RSS feeds, these are easily imported into Boxee and Boxee will create a default skin.

[DPK]

Cant answer question one.
As far as question 2, there has been discussion about a editor http://forum.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=14747, but I don't think it has gone any further. Likely, because once you get started, the skin issue isn't as daunting as it looks.

My work has progressed a little further than my rambling in that linked topic. I have a web interface for my craziness now, but it's mostly reserved for testing at the moment. It's gone through a few iterations based on what I find works/doesn't for a web-based gui app.

It's in a holding pattern at the moment because I can only deal with it in small doses. There's so much data and options to deal with it makes me weary.

[DPK]

My first question is, I've read over and over that Boxee provides enhancements to team-xbmc based on their project's user requests. The big difference between XBMC and Boxee is its online content friendliness (native support for flash, silverlight, etc.). Why hasn't this been merged back into the XBMC trunk? There is little doubt in my mind that this question has been asked before but frankly it is getting too late for me to do the necessary research to find the answer. If there is a solid answer somewhere, I'd appreciate a link.

From what I understand, isn't it up to those working on team-xbmc to decide what they want to accept back into the xbmc trunk? Boxee does commit back to xbmc, I just always was under the impression that after that it's out of their hands. There definitely is a positive relationship between the two groups considering that xbmc's site itself is hosted by Boxee. Hence why Boxee's logo appears at the top right of xbmc's site in such a frequent rotation.

[DPK]

As for my second question, why has Boxee "forgotten its roots" so to speak? When I say that I mean, why has Boxee limited the user contribution branch that came from XBMC? XBMC has a three-tiered approach which separates GUI design from application logic and content hosting. I've written several python plugins over the past year which I know are currently supported by Boxee but seemingly not for long. Please forgive my frankness, but I don't understand why a plugin developer should have to bear the responsibility of building a "skin" for their app. I have been very content with the current Boxee skin over the past few weeks and to port my plugins over, it seems unreasonable to have to build the skin XML to allow my applications to display as I would expect. Perhaps a screen builder would be in order to shield users that have little interest in building overly complex user interfaces from having to do the dirty work of a graphic artist. Having only dabbled in Boxee for a couple weeks, it is possible that I have overlooked such a hidden treasure however I doubt it. As a software engineer by trade I'm willing to offer my services in building such a tool, but I wanted to verify that something wasn't already in development or available and that others would find it useful before wasting my time.

I wouldn't say that Boxee has forgotten its roots at all. The project itself is a fork so naturally things are going to be different. As Fuzz said above, not all apps require you to make your own skin. Even then the process is relatively easy should you need to. I've done so many skin modifications that if I really have to I can throw a skin file together for a basic app rather quickly without giving it too much thought. I think it's part of the "fun" that Boxee allows for such customization. I realize that's not for everyone and can appear daunting at first.

There is the option that some devs are going with of doing a "stock" skin that mimics Boxee's UI. It's relatively quick to do as examples of all controls are in a default xml file in the skin directory that Boxee dumps on your machine. Just copy/paste things and it's done.

We are in beta at the moment and things are constantly changing (the next beta release for example will solve a ton of issues including manual resolve). The api is evolving and a new developer experience is around the corner that will allow 3rd party developers to manage apps themselves easily without having to muck around so much if they're "newbs" to development. It's exciting stuff from what I know and have heard from devs.

[agentlame]

Boxee's flash support is mostly, but not entirely, open-source. The majority of it is based on Mozilla. If XMBC wants it, they can take MOST of it. The sources are there. What is not open-source is bxflplayer, which is the wrapper that controls embeds Flash, Silverlight, Move and/or the XUL. This part would need to be rewritten by the XBMC team.

All that said, your question is better posed to the XBMC team. My guess is that it is not a feature they are interested in.

Boxee and XBMC regularly commit features to one another. (Every few months.)

As for app development, the Boxee team decided to go a different rout for applications. They wanted to offer more flexibility to application developers. This has little to do with 'roots', but just the different goal of the respective projects.

[usminion]

Thank you for your informative responses.

So is there is a special agreement between team-boxee and team-xbmc which allows Boxee to violate the terms of the GPL? I would think there would have to be in order for there to be anything proprietary plugged into software licensed under the GPL.

Thanks again!

[dan1son]

Thank you for your informative responses.

So is there is a special agreement between team-boxee and team-xbmc which allows Boxee to violate the terms of the GPL? I would think there would have to be in order for there to be anything proprietary plugged into software licensed under the GPL.

Thanks again!

They're not violating the GPL since the bxflplayer is a separate executable. It's a bit on the "fringe" of the license, but it's legit.

Boxee isn't an open source development process, but the app is open source. When they release a new build into the wild the source goes with it. They have no SVN repository to grab the current tree, but that's their choice. It's well within the rights of the GPL to do that.

VDPAU is a good example of something XBMC did that boxee used. DXVA2 support is a good example of something boxee did that XBMC used.

XBMCs philosophy is more around local content than it is around web content. It also has a much more "open source" feel to it in general. They find DRM to be bad and don't want to support websites that use it in their flash players. XBMC will play a straight flash video file, even stream it, if it's not DRMd.

[agentlame]

They're not violating the GPL since the bxflplayer is a separate executable. It's a bit on the "fringe" of the license, but it's legit.

It is not even 'on the fringe'. It is 100% legal.

bxflplayer is not a library, it is not statically linked, and there is no requirement for Boxee to give it to anyone. And, I doubt XBMC would even use it. Frankly, bxflplayer is kind of a kluge. bxflplayer is Boxee's secret sauce; and they are well within their rights to keep it to themselves. It's what makes Boxee NOT XBMC.

Just like dan1son says--and I've said MANY times, in the past--Boxee is not an open-source project. It is an open-source application. There is a difference. Boxee, INC. is a for-profit company.

[DPK]

As said above, bxflplayer is its own unique executable (not a library) that was developed by Boxee themselves and is licensed as such. They don't have to release the source for it.