Help me understand why some things rock, some things suck

[mokie]

Hi, I've recently set up a HTPC with Kubuntu 9.10 64-bit running Boxee most of the time. The fam loves the intuitive, casual Boxee interface, but now that they've gotten a taste, they want everything to be perfect. Before I waste tons of time trying to perfect things that might be beyond my control I just want some input about why some things might not be working.

The machine is an Acer Revo R1600 with the Ion graphics and 1GB of RAM. I have the nvidia driver installed. Boxee plays local videos beautifully on my 20-inch HDTV, using 1369x768 resolution and a VGA connection. Boxee also plays certain flash-based content very nicely enlarged to full screen, such as stuff from PBS or YouTube or the Keep in Shape app or Vimeo or the Onion News Network. This is despite the fact that the flash player is still version 10.0.4something because Adobe hasn't released 10.1 for linux 64-bit.

The problem arises with Hulu and the major TV network web sites like NBC. They don't work at all (Hulu can't stream the video) or work so poorly it's not worth it. Now most of the help posts I've seen suggest that this is because Flash isn't optimized yet ... However, those other flash-based content providers are working fine. So my machine is CAPABLE of showing that kind of content even without a flash update.

What is so different about that content from Hulu, NBC, etc that makes it screw up?

Is there anything I should do, hardware or software-wise, that will not consume days and risk screwing up my whole installation? Or should I just keep things as they are and wait for flash 10.1? (or for HTML5 to take over the world?)

Thanks!

[cogadh]

Many of the major networks, like NBC, WB, CW, and ABC, rely on the Move Player and not Flash alone for video streaming. There is no Linux version of the Move player (only Windows and Mac), so until there is one or until those networks drop it as a delivery method, they won't work on Linux. Hulu, on the other hand, is pure Flash, but it has ongoing issues in Boxee, not just on Linux. Some of it has to do with Hulu's attempts to block Boxee's access, the rest of it is due to some needed optimization of the Boxee Browser which is used to display Hulu content. Future versions of Boxee will have that optimization, but we don't have a firm date on when that might happen. This is a beta version, so bugs and problems should be expected, all I can suggest for now is to wait and watch for new versions of Boxee. There should be a new release within the next few days, hopefully that will improve things a bit.

[rifleman]

On hulu videos pause the video for about 45 seconds to fill the buffer and playback should improve lots.

Is that the only problem you have with hulu?

[mokie]

thanks cogadh & rifleman.. the hulu problem is the 'video cannot be streamed' issue other people have, but it sounds like from what cogadh said it's not worth doing speculative tweaks right now. i'll just sit pretty. [in as much as pretty is is possible for me.] :-|

[newcolour]

While hulu is still a problem for boxee, you still have the hulu desktop option, which works alright for ubuntu.

I personally have not experienced any of the troubles with hulu many people have with the recent beta, and so I keep using boxee for that, but I am probably just plain lucky

Cheers,
S.

[NateX]

The Move Player problem is most annoying since there's nothing we Linux users can do except wait. I don't get a "video cannot be played" or whatever error message in Hulu under Boxee, but rather a plain black screen following the 10-15 second advertisement...the counter shows the it's playing, but there's no sound or video. This is only on some shows I've tested where others have played just fine (probably depends on the network - ones that didn't were primarily ABC).

I did notice a definite improvement in playing the same content via Boxee vs. direct from Hulu.com in Firefox, but this was probably due to Boxee's apparent default buffering compared to you having to manually pause via direct browser or Hulu Desktop (perhaps).

To address your questions, I believe there will be a direct improvement in your online Flash-based streaming when you upgrade your Flash player to the latest beta (3) as it will offload video processing to your GPU vs. the CPU taking the full brunt - which is what your 1600 is doing now with Flash 10.0.45 (most likely version you have). That single-core Atom can't handle HD or even large SD content streaming over the 'net on its own, and even a dual-core Atom 330 would probably have some difficulty. Take advantage of the hardware acceleration offered by Flash once it's released for Linux 64-bit, and in the meantime make sure you have the necessary Nvidia drivers and VDPAU installed so all you'll need to do is upgrade Flash when the time comes.

Another option, but would require more work now, is to use a 32-bit version of Linux since Flash 10.1 beta3 is currently available for it. I installed it yesterday on my Atom 330/ION HTPC running Linux Mint 8 and was able to stream from Hulu (via Boxee, Hulu Desktop & Hulu.com) fine as long as the video was sufficiently buffered. Unless you're aware of a clear advantage in running 64-bit for HTPC use on that modest box vs. 32-bit then I question the point since there tends to be more availability and support for 32-bit OS' at this time. I've thrown local network (including HD) and 'net streamed content at my 32-bit Linux install with no significant issues seen to date.

[mokie]

Thanks NateX. All these hulu/flash/move/etc related gyrations are a bit academic now, because it turns out the family really wants Netflix streaming to work from inside Boxee.

For that Windows is the only way to go. So sadly I'm booting the thing into Windows XP -- which definitely represented a performance and security penalty. I had to upgrade the RAM to 3gb to make it work. I'm feeling deeply annoyed, but for this particular project the users' desires trump other considerations, at least until Netflix and Adobe get with it and support Linux.

I'm hoping other people will join me in calling Netflix customer service to ask them to support Linux. More details: http://bottleworld.net/?p=364

[emotional_friend]

same thing for me. streaming video was ok quality under Ubuntu, but netflix and hulu were a crapshoot, so I switched to WinXP. Now, no streaming video works on my single-core Athlon XP 3200+ processor. when i say 'works' i mean it's all choppy.

had no idea winxp was going to be a performance hit. I'm seriously inclined to buy one of those $40 mobo & processor combos fry's offers every weekend just to get a multi-core processor going that can run winXP and boxee. Was hoping to make use of my old computer as a htpc, but apparently it isn't in the cards.

i still am eager to see boxee thrive, because I think it's an exciting media platform and would love to develop apps for it. the real problem exists in content owners adhering to proprietary delivery systems that just aren't efficient or multi-platform.

emotional friend