Mac Mini - Good device for Boxee?

[mswbull]

Hi all,

I am in the process of building/buying a new media centre specifically for video and music.

Up until now I have been using the PS3 with a 250GB HDD although the lack of support for certain codec’s and containers is starting to annoy me and although re-encoding the video to be compatible with the PS3 is not that difficult it does add time.

Therefore last night I had my first play with Boxee and I liked what I saw.

I primarily use Mac's at home and was wondering how many people would recommend the Mac Mini as a Boxee Media Centre?

I will be watching 1080p encoded video and was hoping someone could confirm that the 2GHz C2D Mini has enough grunt to run this resolution?

Any views, ideas and/or suggestions would be gratefully received.

Cheers.

[marcel]

hi

check out this thread (http://forum.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=221) we at boxee like the mini..:)

[dave]

I have used a 1.8 Dual core w/1GB and a 2.0 Dual core w/2GB as my boxee device in the living room. Your 1080p is going to be a 2GHz machine, as there is no hardware acceleration yet in the DVD Player. You will also need a fast network to feed the bits into the computer if they are not stored locally.

720p is fine though for even the Apple TV patchstick, or an old Ubuntu box with a 5200 series GPU. See my other posts on old hardware running boxee.

Best thing about the Apple Mac Mini, is the 3.5" audio output also is an optical output. So you can do DTS, AC3, etc with an optical receiver.

For the Apple TV that audio goes through the HDMI port. Joy of joys! We just need access to their GPU to get 1080p working on that platform.

[mswbull]

Cheers all :D

Looks like the Mini is my platform of choice.

I might just wait until the end of October though just in case Apple decide to give the Mini a much needed upgrade, even if it is just a speed bump. (It has been like eleven months since Apple last touched the Mini).

I also happen to have 2GB of memory spare at the moment so I can add that to the build. :)

[sneeks]

I'm considering opting for the Mac Mini route but will also wait until the possible October are over with. I don't want to buy this week only to see a newer version available 2 or 3 weeks from now.

[jag0]

Dave if I understand you correctly, the guys at team Boxee think its 'possible' to run real 1080p content on the appleTV with some more work and time? Or did I misunderstand what you were saying. Reason I ask is this.

I just purchased a popcorn hour. However after playing around with Boxee on my macbook and macbook pro I am STRONGLY Considering selling it. Possible setups if I sell it are:

1. apple tv + external 1.5TB HD (attached via usb2.0 or firewire) - in this case would the apple TV be able to handle content streaming from the USB drive? Much less 1080p content?

2. Mac Mini + 1.5TB external HD (attached via USB 2.0 or firewire) - will THIS handle 1080p content streamed from the external HD?

3. Spare Macbook pro + external HD attached (via USB 2.0) - problem with this is, its big, ugly, and I assume consumes more power.




I have used a 1.8 Dual core w/1GB and a 2.0 Dual core w/2GB as my boxee device in the living room. Your 1080p is going to be a 2GHz machine, as there is no hardware acceleration yet in the DVD Player. You will also need a fast network to feed the bits into the computer if they are not stored locally.

720p is fine though for even the Apple TV patchstick, or an old Ubuntu box with a 5200 series GPU. See my other posts on old hardware running boxee.

Best thing about the Apple Mac Mini, is the 3.5" audio output also is an optical output. So you can do DTS, AC3, etc with an optical receiver.

For the Apple TV that audio goes through the HDMI port. Joy of joys! We just need access to their GPU to get 1080p working on that platform.

[dave]

So, here's the rub on the Apple TV - we are dealing with a 1GHz CPU and a customized GPU that XBMC and therefore boxee does not have acceleration on due to the video player that we use. This means that the bitrate of the HD video we decode is limited by the 1GHz CPU. If DVDPlayer (the player we at XBMC and boxee use) is tweaked for the GPU, it will offload CPU cycles on your Mac, and possibly allow the Apple TV to play 1080p. Check the XBMC wiki here: http://xbmc.org/wiki/?title=DVDPlayer for info on the player.

The XBMC guys are considering hardware acceleration for DVDPlayer. http://xbmc.org/wiki/?title=GSoC_-_GPU_Assisted_Video_Decoding

So yes, we think that with smart people on the project above, 1080p is feasible on all platforms, from the Atom based boxes to the Apple TV. Where are the smart people who can help on this? :)

The other problem with the Apple TV USB port is that I haven't seen mass storage support while it is booted. Considering the Patchstick gives file system access under power-up, I would expect it to come however. And there is no firewire on that platform. Streaming media via Ethernet on a 100MB switch to a PC (NAS devices are notoriously slow) or a quality 5GHz 802.11n link are what I want to test as soon as the GPU offloading is worked out. I run two WiFi networks at home - 802.11n @5Ghz via an Airport Extreme for my new systems (Macbook Pro, AppleTV, etc) and a 802.11b/g via a Linksys with Tomato firmware (awesome code!) for my legacy stuff like iPhones, Chumby, and my old PC laptops.

Spare Macbook Pro? We should hang out if you are going to have gear like this around. The big problem with this platform is thermal. You will need to keep the LCD open to help dissipate heat through the keyboard. Without the GPU offload the CPU gets hot in this thing when watching media.

Mac Mini today, and Apple TV tomorrow is what I'd do if HD content (at 1080p) is that important.

[jag0]

Sound advice....

Looks like the Mac mini it is :)

Now the questions are

1. 1.87ghz or 2hgz?
2. 1 Gig of ram? or 2 Gigs of ram?


;)

[Raybdbomb]

i have the mini, and the faster the better, especially for HD content.

RAM, if you're looking to pinch some pennies, I'd go lower from Apple and upgrade it yourself for 1/2 the price :0

[jag0]

Yah. I think im gonna go for the 2Ghz model and upgrade the ram myself.

On a side note. I HAVE been running boxee through what i would consider to be stress testing.. running this on my

macbook 1.8 Core Duo (NOT Core 2 duo)
1.25Gig ram,
10 gigs hd space free
80gig 5400 RPM hard drive
300Gig USB 2.0 portable drive.

today i played a 1080p MKV file, within rars, from the portable drive. Played pretty sweet until i started skipping around in the video just to see what would happen. It lost sync and slowed down. Kept skipping around and it eventually crashed....

Pretty damn good if you ask . The video i was playing from within the rars could NOT play flawlessly when stored on the internal hard drive of my macbook pro using VLC.....

[mswbull]

Yah. I think im gonna go for the 2Ghz model and upgrade the ram myself.

On a side note. I HAVE been running boxee through what i would consider to be stress testing.. running this on my

macbook 1.8 Core Duo (NOT Core 2 duo)
1.25Gig ram,
10 gigs hd space free
80gig 5400 RPM hard drive
300Gig USB 2.0 portable drive.

today i played a 1080p MKV file, within rars, from the portable drive. Played pretty sweet until i started skipping around in the video just to see what would happen. It lost sync and slowed down. Kept skipping around and it eventually crashed....

Pretty damn good if you ask . The video i was playing from within the rars could NOT play flawlessly when stored on the internal hard drive of my macbook pro using VLC.....

Hi Jag0,

I would seriously consider holding off on the Mini purchase for at least a few weeks. It has been over a year since the Mini received an update and although is still a great little box it is quite underpowered by today’s standards. With the next Apple event rumoured for October 14th there is always the possibility that the Mini will receive its long delayed update.

Unfortunately with all Apple products there are nothing but rumours out there at the moment and I think its really 50/50 at best if we will see a Mini update in October with the focus probably going to new MacBook/MacBook Pro's.

However we can all hope and I would hate to see someone by a new Mini today only to have a better one released tomorrow.

What new features would you want?

[jag0]

Solid advice taken. Fortunately, or unfortunately I'm currently in a bid for a mac mini, 2.0Ghz core 2 duo, 2 gigs of ram and 120 gig HD. not planning to spend too much more than 500 on it, so if i lose so be it. I'll wait a few weeks. If not then at least i got a decent machine at a decent price (albeit it might be outdated in a few weeks)

[uncola]

people have been saying "don't buy a mac mini for a few weeks, they are going to update" for like 6 months now..

[mswbull]

people have been saying "don't buy a mac mini for a few weeks, they are going to update" for like 6 months now..

I would agree that there is never really a good time to upgrade hardware, however I do believe there are bad times to upgrade and a week/days before a predicated Apple event is a bad time. I believe you should at least wait until after October 14th.

With Snow Leopard (OS 10.6) expected to use alot more graphics power and set to be released next year it seems likely Apple will want to migrate all their Laptop/Desktop computers over to either a dedicated graphics solution or an onboard solution provided by a graphics vendor such as nVidia or ATi.

To help back this up the current rumours are saying that the MacBook will go with an nVidia chipset on October 14th. This will leave just the Mac Mini with intel graphics...

(All just my opinion of course)

[perrin21]

why not build your own?

[jag0]

I think waiting a few days to see if new minis are released is well worth it. Worst case i'll wait a couple more days...and end up paying the same amount i would have paid now for the same old hardware...

best case, new minis are revealed, if the new ones are worth it I buy a new one... if they aren't then i buy a used one at a discounted price.

In the mean time I'm playing with boxee on my macbook pro. seeing what it can do what it cant do etc.

As for why not just build one ? a few things

1. Price, for 500 bux i can get 1.8hgz core 2 duo machine with 1 gig of ram, 80gig hd, in a small form facgtor case with 802.11n, digital output for video and audio..... if you can show me the components that priced together will give me that I'm game

2. I'm just lazy :D

[mswbull]

I think waiting a few days to see if new minis are released is well worth it. Worst case i'll wait a couple more days...and end up paying the same amount i would have paid now for the same old hardware...

best case, new minis are revealed, if the new ones are worth it I buy a new one... if they aren't then i buy a used one at a discounted price.

In the mean time I'm playing with boxee on my macbook pro. seeing what it can do what it cant do etc.

As for why not just build one ? a few things

1. Price, for 500 bux i can get 1.8hgz core 2 duo machine with 1 gig of ram, 80gig hd, in a small form facgtor case with 802.11n, digital output for video and audio..... if you can show me the components that priced together will give me that I'm game

2. I'm just lazy :D

Exactly the same position as me. I am currently running boxee on my MacBook Pro with the intention to buy a Mac Mini ASAP. Like you say though I will also wait till at least after October 14th just in case by some miracle a new Mini is released.

I would like to see the following additions:

Update to current CPU and Chipset including a minor speed bump.
Wireless “n” as standard.
Dedicated graphics or a move to an nVidia chipset with better onboard graphics.

If I got that I would be very happy. I’m not concerned about the aesthetics as I feel the Mini looks good enough and is still one of the smallest computers on the market.

[mswbull]

why not build your own?

As for building my own I would agree that is tempting. The option to build a cheap Linux box does offer additional flexibility in terms of hardware.

However show me a mini-pc that can rival the Mac Mini's size/power usage. Also I am a fan of OS 10 therefore as a preference would like to stick with Apple. I have played with the Hackintosh builds however never found a solution that gives me the performance/stability of a true Apple built machine.

[jag0]

Well,

I went ahead and bout a 1.83 Core 2 Duo Mac mini (think i paid more than i should have for it... 560?) It comes with 1 Gig of ram & 160GB Hard disk, I'm considering upgrading RAM to 3 gigs or 4 gigs.... not sure if the benefit would be worth it.

I did take a look at the MIT student's write up on how he intends to get DVDPlayer to use the GPU. I'd love to know how far along he is on that but i couldn't find any further info. I'm still fearful that thw 1.83 Core2 duo will not be sufficient for 1080p scene with LOTS of action and movement.... but i suppose there really is only 1 way to find out...

Anybody has any experience with a 1.83Ghz Core 2 duo and action packed 1080p content?

[uncola]

well they didn't update the mac mini on the 14th :P
maybe they'll update it during macworld in january

[mswbull]

Well,

I went ahead and bout a 1.83 Core 2 Duo Mac mini (think i paid more than i should have for it... 560?) It comes with 1 Gig of ram & 160GB Hard disk, I'm considering upgrading RAM to 3 gigs or 4 gigs.... not sure if the benefit would be worth it.

I did take a look at the MIT student's write up on how he intends to get DVDPlayer to use the GPU. I'd love to know how far along he is on that but i couldn't find any further info. I'm still fearful that thw 1.83 Core2 duo will not be sufficient for 1080p scene with LOTS of action and movement.... but i suppose there really is only 1 way to find out...

Anybody has any experience with a 1.83Ghz Core 2 duo and action packed 1080p content?

Cool, looks like we won't see a Mini update this year so I also went ahead and got myself one from eBay. Managed to get a good deal on the 2Ghz Core 2 Duo and have 2GB of Ram going spare so will add that to the mix as soon as I find a pair of putty knives to complete the job.

Jag0 - I am not sure the Mini can support 4GB of RAM. I think with 2 slots the support officially ends at 2GB (unless it can un-officially take more like the old MacBook Pros). I however don't think you will need any more then 2Gb if you are just using it as a boxee media player.

[jag0]

Well what I've done is. I've bought the mac mini (1.8 c2d), an extra 2 gigs of ram, and I'm getting a 2.33 Ghz c2d processor to swap out. I think that should be MORE Than enough until the geniuses at XMBC/ffMpeg figure out how to do hardware GPU decoding...

[Bilet]

Can I run 1080p on 1.8 GHz or do I need to get a 2GHz. Will that say that I just as good can go out and buy a Apple TV? . . since they are much cheaper? Please help!

And does Mac Mini play 720p well?

[mswbull]

Can I run 1080p on 1.8 GHz or do I need to get a 2GHz. Will that say that I just as good can go out and buy a Apple TV? . . since they are much cheaper? Please help!

And does Mac Mini play 720p well?

To be honest it depends on what you mean by 1080p.

Most video that you can download that states they are "HD" came from a High Definition source although are not actually native quality and have significant compression applied to make the file size more usable.

This compression reduces the load on the CPU when decoding the video due to the lower bit rate and allows them to play on a machine that may otherwise fail with a native source.

For example I have backups of Blu-Ray movies taken from a 1080p source which are re-encoded in H.264 with AAC audio coming in at around 8GB, these play flawlessly on my 2GHz Core 2 Duo Mac Mini and look great, however like I said earlier are not native 1080p. If I were to try and play the native video it may push the processor to hard and result in lost frames or jumpy playback.

I guess it very much depends on what quality you are trying to achieve. Where will you be getting the majority of your HD content from?

[mswbull]

Not sure if any one else has seen, but it looks like the Mac Mini may be discontinued ASAP based on the recent Apple earnings conference call.

This will be a big blow for boxee fans as the Mini does seem to be a popular platform.

[Bilet]

Mostly compressed 1080p sources. . . from Blu-Ray etc. . . and if not, would it do 720p?

Would a 1,8 Ghz Mac Mini do that?

[perrin21]

a few points i would like to make,

A mac mini is a fine piece of tech, for a while i wanted one but i always held off as the graphics and sound quality are way below par. they are adequate but not going to shame a dedicated piece of AV gear. The form factor of a mac mini is fantastic i agree as is the power usage and the silent operation but for me i wanted something that would last me for years and be far superior to even dedicated AV gear.

Firstly, my machine isnt a hackintosh, not in the true sense of the word anyway, its not a Mac either (although i can do all apple 10.5.X updates without flaw). Its something in between. I haven't modified the osx install in any way, in fact i could (and have) remove my drive from my machine and install it in a real Mac without any issues. This is because the content is totally 100% unmodified (hence not a hackintosh).

A non Apple Mac doesn't have to be associated with Cheap, mine for instance cost more than most new Mac pro's, its simply a specialist item i have created to do a specific job. It is no less stable than any of my macs in my house, in fact its on 24/7. However i have been able to fit a 1080P and above capable graphics card and a professional sound card that would shame the finest of dedicated CD/DVD players. After all, music is created using macs with Pro AV gear. Boxee works fantastic on this device and it looks even more sexy in my AV rack than a mac pro (only real apple alternative) as its in a proper dedicated HTPC case. I wish apple would make a proper dedicated machine, but the market for them is too small, look at apple tv, its a flop in the true sense of the word. the cheapest i have been able to calculate the cost of a hackintosh is about £250, but yes, thats a hackintosh. You cant build something ive got (not a hackintosh) on a shoe string budget to undercut an apple. Its not worth it.

Either way, im sure you will be happy with your Mac mini as its a fine piece of tech as i have mentioned previous, but don't be put off making something dedicated, i guarantee, you wont regret it.

[mswbull]

a few points i would like to make,

A mac mini is a fine piece of tech, for a while i wanted one but i always held off as the graphics and sound quality are way below par. they are adequate but not going to shame a dedicated piece of AV gear. The form factor of a mac mini is fantastic i agree as is the power usage and the silent operation but for me i wanted something that would last me for years and be far superior to even dedicated AV gear.

Firstly, my machine isnt a hackintosh, not in the true sense of the word anyway, its not a Mac either (although i can do all apple 10.5.X updates without flaw). Its something in between. I haven't modified the osx install in any way, in fact i could (and have) remove my drive from my machine and install it in a real Mac without any issues. This is because the content is totally 100% unmodified (hence not a hackintosh).

A non Apple Mac doesn't have to be associated with Cheap, mine for instance cost more than most new Mac pro's, its simply a specialist item i have created to do a specific job. It is no less stable than any of my macs in my house, in fact its on 24/7. However i have been able to fit a 1080P and above capable graphics card and a professional sound card that would shame the finest of dedicated CD/DVD players. After all, music is created using macs with Pro AV gear. Boxee works fantastic on this device and it looks even more sexy in my AV rack than a mac pro (only real apple alternative) as its in a proper dedicated HTPC case. I wish apple would make a proper dedicated machine, but the market for them is too small, look at apple tv, its a flop in the true sense of the word. the cheapest i have been able to calculate the cost of a hackintosh is about £250, but yes, thats a hackintosh. You cant build something ive got (not a hackintosh) on a shoe string budget to undercut an apple. Its not worth it.

Either way, im sure you will be happy with your Mac mini as its a fine piece of tech as i have mentioned previous, but don't be put off making something dedicated, i guarantee, you wont regret it.

Hi perrin21,

I see you are using the EFI-X to allow you to run OS 10.5 on non-approved Apple hardware. I would agree this solution is currently the best on the market to create a "hackintosh". I would still call this a hackintosh as it is running OS 10.5 on non-standard/custom hardware via the use of a hardware modification (hack).

I have played with hackintosh builds (although never EFI-X) both as a virtual machine running on top of Windows and natively booting directly from the HDD. My experience has taught me that traditional "hackintosh" solutions are simply not worth the effort. I was never able to achieve a rock stable, fast performance machine that compared to my MacBook Pro or even PowerBook G4. This to me leaves only the EFI-X as an option which requires specific hardware to be purchased for compatibility and of course costs to buy the BPU (Boot Processing Unit) modification.

As a result I would still recommend the Mini for boxee users. Simply because it will be fast enough for most peoples media needs and is the simplest/cheapest way to get the Mac experience.

Bilet: I can confirm that my 2GHz Core 2 Duo Mini can run compressed HD video with 5.1 surround sound without an issue. This includes digital backups made from both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. I can not speak for the 1.8GHz version however be aware that its not just a reduction in MHz but also has a smaller cache.

[perrin21]

hi, my findings with a traditional hackingtosh were similar to your own, frequent kernel panics etc, however the efix does exactly as advertised. Rock solid stable. I have a macbook pro 2.16 with an ssd in it and a powerbook g4, and they are my benchmark for stability. Its as good as a mac for that. My only reason for recommending the route i took is flexibility of spec chosen. Pro sound cards (Lynx L22) and great graphics. It also runs perfectly silent thanks to fanless components where available, psu, graphics etc.

[perrin21]

By the way, what program are you using to backup your blu ray discs to HD? what is the quality like?, does it compress?

[jag0]

Would LOVE to hear some results for the following sample

http://rapidshare.com/files/82525583/killa.sampla.x264.mkv.html

download it, and list how many dropped frames and MAX cpu usage.

It really BURNS my spirit that we're letting the GPU go to waste in the mac minis. I PRAY that one day the FFMPEG guys will unlock it and make use of it

[perrin21]

hi i have downloaded it, plays fine, let me know how i can record the info you want.

[jag0]

as soon as the video starts press 'I' on the keyboard.

you should see a panel drop down with some additional info

[perrin21]

dropped 5
cpu 0-1%
25.6 fps

[jag0]

I'm convinced... HAckintosh is the way to go....

Anybody interested in a mac mini ?? ;)

[jag0]

Perrin, I'd be greatful for some guidance as to what hardware to get and where to start if im giong to delve into the hackintosh camp.

[mswbull]

Perrin, I'd be greatful for some guidance as to what hardware to get and where to start if im giong to delve into the hackintosh camp.

Hi Jag0,

Do you intend to use the EFI-X like perrin21?

If so I would check the XFI-X hardware compatibility list found below:

http://www.efi-x.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26&language=english

If you want the solution to work correctly you need to ensure you purchase the correct hardware such as Mainboard, CPU, Video, Sound and NIC.

[perrin21]

just copy from the hcl or from my list of components if you want.

[perrin21]

word from the wise, don't hackintosh, buy an efix. its much less hassle and excellent support. 100% Stable too. and there are a few thing that arent in the HCL that work also, sound cards etc...