Aspect Ratios

[zorlan]

This is the one feature that is quite often overlooked on many media streamers. I feel it is extremely beneficial as a user to be able to change my video from 4:3 to 16:9 while the video is playing and not have to re-encode it to fit my screen or without having to stop playing the video. Zoom cuts parts out and the 16x9 option will not go to full screen, it will just widen it. My screen is 16x9 1080p so I do not understand the problem here. Also it would be nice to be able to set the default ratio ourselves. At least if we can, I have missed it.

I have found that the aspect ratio options in boxee are very limited as well. I cannot get my 4:3 movies to fit full screen without part of the movie being cut out. Many streamers overlook this functionality and I do not know why. I would never use zoom. I don't mid stretching the pciture as long as nothing is cut out.

Is there something I am missing here? I hope boxee will revamp these aspect ratio options and make them more powerful for the user.

The best aspect ratio options on a streamer I have seen to date are the xtreamer and believe it or not the viewsonic nexTV (this little box is the best streamer I have ever owned, has volume control as well.)

--Z

[stevo81989]

Never had an issue with aspect ratio. They support like 4:3, 16:10, 16:9 and 1 other. you can also fix the overscan issues as well. is this what you are looking for? Little unsure what your issue is...

[stevo81989]

I feel it is extremely beneficial as a user to be able to change my video from 4:3 to 16:9 while the video is playing and not have to re-encode it to fit my screen or without having to stop playing the video. Zoom cuts parts out and the 16x9 option will not go to full screen, it will just widen it.

It just sunk in. Press the menu button, and in the top right, hit the gear (settings) button. Under the video should have the ability to change ratio's...

[zorlan]

yes I have tried that but my 4:3 videos still will not fit to the 16x9 screen. There will still be black bars and there shouldn't be. I did setup the screen at the beginning and that setup was kind of strange too. It was nto easy to determine how I needed to move the arrows. I am using a 1920x1080 Samsung LCD which I think is 16x9 and I shouldnt be having these formatting issues.

[stevo81989]

Black bars on top and bottom or black bars on left and right? Do you want the content stretched?

[zorlan]

Black bars on the left and right. Yeah stretching is fine...but it won't stretch fully.

[stevo81989]

yes I have tried that but my 4:3 videos still will not fit to the 16x9 screen. There will still be black bars and there shouldn't be. I did setup the screen at the beginning and that setup was kind of strange too. It was nto easy to determine how I needed to move the arrows. I am using a 1920x1080 Samsung LCD which I think is 16x9 and I shouldnt be having these formatting issues.

The calibrating the screen is necessary. Its because all screens use overscan (not the time or place to discuss). You move them so you can see the big arrows but not the lines lines...

Yes it is 16:9, but 4:3 videos will still have black bars on the left and right as they should.

[stevo81989]

Black bars on the left and right. Yeah stretching is fine...but it won't stretch fully.

That is perfectly normal. All 4:3 content should have black bars on the left and right to preserve the original intention of the video.

I remember seeing an option to stretch the video somewhere, not to sure where. im also not sure if this is a heavily requested feature. Im not in front of my box so I couldnt tell you, maybe someone else will pop in...

[ripper2982]

That is perfectly normal. All 4:3 content should have black bars on the left and right to preserve the original intention of the video.


I'd have to disagree with you on this. I'm experiencing the same issue with black bars on both sides of my 4:3 content. The only workaroudn I've found is to go into video settings when playing and change the aspect to 14:9 which still doesn't fill the screen.

Just for kicks I tested the same videos on my PC with Boxee .9 and it properly expands the video to fit the screen so it looks like it was broken by 1.0

[zorlan]

Yes black bars show up when a 4:3 video is being shown on a 16:9 screen. But when I change the display options to 16x9 in boxee, it should stretch it to fit the 16x9 screen and it is not. I love this option and not many streamers include it or if they do their attempts are faulty. The two other streamers I mentioned do it perfectly.

[zorlan]

I'd have to disagree with you on this. I'm experiencing the same issue with black bars on both sides of my 4:3 content. The only workaroudn I've found is to go into video settings when playing and change the aspect to 14:9 which still doesn't fill the screen.

Just for kicks I tested the same videos on my PC with Boxee .9 and it properly expands the video to fit the screen so it looks like it was broken by 1.0

You know what, the same thing happened to me. I thought it was working for a bit. Then it stopped working. Must have been the update that killed it. I was extremely close to sending this thing back because of it. For $200 I expect this option.

[stevo81989]

You know what, the same thing happened to me. I thought it was working for a bit. Then it stopped working. Must have been the update that killed it. I was extremely close to sending this thing back because of it. For $200 I expect this option.

From my knowledge, the 16:9 only serves to tell the boxee box what kind of screen to format itself for, not the video.And yes, it is known that 4:3 DOES have black bars on the side. The user as to choose to distort (stretch) the image.

And yes, you should have that option. I could have sworn I saw it. I would email boxee support. And would you really send it back for the lack of one small option?

[zorlan]

From my knowledge, the 16:9 only serves to tell the boxee box what kind of screen to format itself for, not the video.And yes, it is known that 4:3 DOES have black bars on the side. The user as to choose to distort (stretch) the image.

And yes, you should have that option. I could have sworn I saw it. I would email boxee support. And would you really send it back for the lack of one small option?

I think you might be thinking about the display options in boxee itself, I am talking about the options you can bring up while the video is playing (changing the display of the video). It will change the aspect ratio in many ways but not go to full screen. The options are in there but they do not function properly. Call it stretching or what you will, it is still the aspect ratio that is changing and the options boxee gives are either not working properly or cannot do it at all.

[stevo81989]

I think you might be thinking about the display options in boxee itself, I am talking about the options you can bring up while the video is playing (changing the display of the video). It will change the aspect ratio in many ways but not go to full screen. The options are in there but they do not function properly. Call it stretching or what you will, it is still the aspect ratio that is changing and the options boxee gives are either not working properly or cannot do it at all.

Oh ok. I guess im just an idiot...yeah seems like just some weird stuff going on. I would email boxee support...

[dialing_wand]

No, it's broken in Boxee Box.

On my ATV running Boxee 0.9, Stretch 16:9 and Stretch 14:9 (my favourite) for 4:3 content would stretch the image to the edge of the screen.

Even using the advanced controls to zoom the image as much as possible leaves 1" black bars at the edge. The image keeps zooming but not to the edge.

Native 16:9 content plays edge-to-edge and my screen is properly setup with the overscan arrows as they should be.

Oy-vey the bugs!

[eldepeche]

What kind of content are you seeing this problem with? I just tried the "Stretch 16:9" setting on a 4:3 local file and it stretched it to fill the screen. Is this a streaming content issue? If so, can you give an example of a video where this happens?

I have noticed that a lot of video sources format widescreen content as letterboxed 4:3 (which then gets pillarboxed, creating a classy postage stamp image on my expensive TV), as if it were impossible to use a different aspect ratio, but this issue isn't peculiar to Boxee.

And frankly, I think you're insane for wanting the aspect ratio distorted, but that's neither here nor there, as I agree the software should have the option.

[dialing_wand]

What kind of content are you seeing this problem with? I just tried the "Stretch 16:9" setting on a 4:3 local file and it stretched it to fill the screen. Is this a streaming content issue? If so, can you give an example of a video where this happens?

I have noticed that a lot of video sources format widescreen content as letterboxed 4:3 (which then gets pillarboxed, creating a classy postage stamp image on my expensive TV), as if it were impossible to use a different aspect ratio, but this issue isn't peculiar to Boxee.

And frankly, I think you're insane for wanting the aspect ratio distorted, but that's neither here nor there, as I agree the software should have the option.

I have an old plasma. So my insanity is more about burn-in at the pillarbox points. It's already slightly damaged as a result of some early watching of SD OTA content. I'd rather have a slightly-off aspect ratio than a completely ruined TV.

The content is old 4:3 (640x480) MKV backups of TV shows (not letterboxed) from years ago. Yesterday they played fine with Stretch 14:9 (no pillarboxing) on Boxee 0.9 running on my ATV. Today on the Boxee Box, no love.

[zorlan]

No love at all...Native 4:3 movies on 1920x1080 will not stretch to fit the screen. If you like the stamp image in the center that is fine with me...but I do not. What is the point of owning a nice big high def screen if you cannot have content spread across it? I don't care if that conent was not encoded in high def or not. I have had two other streamers that can easily handle these aspect ratios. It is a mere preference and one that I would like to have when paying $200 for a streamer. I have a 46 inch and the picture on it is mostly likely 32" when playing this 4:3 content...I'd rather have it stretched and out of proportion than only use 40% of my screen area when I paid for 100% of it.

[zorlan]

What kind of content are you seeing this problem with? I just tried the "Stretch 16:9" setting on a 4:3 local file and it stretched it to fill the screen. Is this a streaming content issue? If so, can you give an example of a video where this happens?

I have noticed that a lot of video sources format widescreen content as letterboxed 4:3 (which then gets pillarboxed, creating a classy postage stamp image on my expensive TV), as if it were impossible to use a different aspect ratio, but this issue isn't peculiar to Boxee.

And frankly, I think you're insane for wanting the aspect ratio distorted, but that's neither here nor there, as I agree the software should have the option.

What is the resolution of the screen you are stretching it on? Is it a full 1920x1080? If so let me know how you are setting up the boxee's screen area if you could.

[Alphabase]

There is a serious bug with aspect ratios in the current firmware of the boxee box. I am on the verge of returning it as a result. I have calibrated overscan areas etc and have my box running 1080i. The issue to me appears to be that the 4:3 content is not displaying correctly, it is essentially 3:3 and square rather than slightly rectangular. Things look squished. Of course if I choose to stretch to 16:9 using the settings available while playing I still have black bars on the side as the starting point was already too narrow. I was hoping to use the boxee box as a replacement for my ps3 streaming and it certainly displays the same streamed 4:3 content with the correct aspect ratio. Essentially for me any 4:3 streamed content has very wide black bars on either side. Can anyone else confirm this behavior?

[schmedigans]

I can confirm that this all worked perfectly in the beta, and is now broken in 1.0

[Ph8]

The 1080i issues are know I believe and from a Tweet Avner and team are working on a fix.....

[Alphabase]

Ok thanks for that. I've gone over everything several times. I'll hold onto the box and hope a fix comes out before my return date passes by.

[zorlan]

Wow good news. If this gets fixed I have to say this is the best streamer I have ever owned.

I just hope they relize how important this is to many users. I'd rather not reconvert my 4:3 content to 16:9. That would take forever.

Z

Update*** I just read some of the things they are trying to fix is web content being in full screen. I hope this was not confused with local content aspect ratios. This is SO huge to me...4:3 content is like having an LCD half the size...

[zorlan]

These aspect ratios are now working! I also notice that the resoultion will change from 1080 @60hz to 1080 @ 24 hz automatically when I play video files. I am not sure why these aspect ratios are working again unless updates are automatic.

Anyone else have them working again who was having problems before?

Z

[Svashtar]

Hi,

i got my Boxee few days ago and i can confirm this is NOT working....all my Seinfeld 4:3 files can't be stretched to "full screen" which i usually do on my notebook Boxee SW.

Is this known as a bug and will be sorted out, or can lease someone help me set-up my TV correctly so it will be properly calibrated to work with boxee..


Thx

[Svashtar]

Anyone? Noone?

[Svashtar]

Figured it out....
In the display settings on advanced calibration, the middle rectangle shouldn't be a perfect square like it says, but rather exactly 1.000.

Stretches just fine now...

[usagent27]

Figured it out....
In the display settings on advanced calibration, the middle rectangle shouldn't be a perfect square like it says, but rather exactly 1.000.

Stretches just fine now...

can you elaborate? i'm at work and i want to do this when i get home. this has been a issue with all of my 4:3 content

[usagent27]

i just tried that and i still have black bars on the side

[BlackwatchPlaid]

I couldn't imagine watching 4/3 content stretched to 16/9, that would annoy the crap out of me. Having everyone look all fat and out of proportion, geez, makes me cringe to think classic movies and TV are being butchered in such a fashion.

[Svashtar]

Well, for me 4:3 is just not watchable, and 16:9 stretch looks just fine for me. People in the movie are not fat or skinny :) or weird whatsoever. Maybe it is because George and Kramer are weird and funny in any way :)

Anyway, to the point:
i had these problems with 4:3 not being stretched as it should be, also zoom and other modes were a little off. So i started playing around. First thing i did was change my native TV mode of screen. I have Sony KDL40NX700 TV which has 3 modes: smart, wide and zoom. At first my TV for Boxee HDMI input was set to wide, just like i use it on normal TV channels (hdmi input). So, i thought maybe i should change this first, and i set it to "smart". I am just saying this cause maybe it has something to do with Boxee, but i am not sure, i honestly don't think this is a reason why it works now (but you can try changing to different modes).

So, when i changed this, i had to calibrate the screen in Boxee again, as smart mode is different of wide mode and the boxee screen was off, not everything on the display - meaning the picture was bigger and not everything could be seen.

So i went back to boxee display settings, set it to no overscan, 16:9....than i went to advanced settings, set the left upper corner, set right bottom corner, and as it says on the guide tried to make a perfect squared box in the middle (just like i did the first time with wide TV mode).

Ok, than i went to my Seinfeld clips and tried to stretch again - no luck.
So, than i went to advanced video settings (basically same calibration as withing general display settings) in the video itself and tried this:

- stretched the middle rectangle all the way out so it looks very wide, than went back to the video and tried 16:9 (it doesn't work immediatelly, you have to set it 16:9 and go out of the settings to see the change) - at this point the picture was very narrow

- tried again but set the middle rectangle to be very narrow - repeated the story of 16:9 settings - the picture became wider than usual, but still with black bars at left and right.

- than, i was a little pissed off, the picture was certainly changed because of that rectangle settings, so i said to myself why not try to set it to 1.0 (so it is not off the scale - just a thought i had), i did that and went back to vide, changed it again to 16:9 and to my surprise it worked perfectly.

Now also, 14:9, zoom and others work like i expect them to.

So this is my story :) and this worked for me.
One thing you have to remember i think is that when you set your video to be 16:9 (or something else) it probably wont work immediately, so go out of that screen back to video and you will see if it changes. When it does and you are happy with it, next time it will also work in the settings immediately, at least this is a case on my side.

There certainly is something fishy going on, but as long as it works for me i am not going to bitch over it.

I must say that apart of this and some problems i had with one of the movies (sound disappearing for a little while) i am quite happy with Boxee, i don't have any major problems...or they are still to emerge as i am using it for less than a week.

Hope this helps to anyone...

[jonnyroadley]

I went cold and shuddered reading this thread...

4:3 should never be messed with - on a media streamer or on set top boxes.

[darkfire]

I will be uploading a video shortly to youtube showing and describing what you guys want. Ill post the link soon. Maybe not...

Video Mode Strech 16:9 doesn't stick and cant be set to default... That is what you want.

If you still want me to upload the video I can. Just 1 person ask and I will.

[soundoftheground]

I went cold and shuddered reading this thread...

4:3 should never be messed with - on a media streamer or on set top boxes.

ditto! i've been biting my tongue and not commenting on it...it's been tough though.

[Svashtar]

Can you two please shed some light on this matter as i simply don't understand why you are sooo against 16:9 for 4:3 content.

Did you even try it? As far as i can see, 16:9 is perfectly OK and i don't see any reason why not use it.

Please enlighten me

[BlackwatchPlaid]

Can you two please shed some light on this matter as i simply don't understand why you are sooo against 16:9 for 4:3 content.

Did you even try it? As far as i can see, 16:9 is perfectly OK and i don't see any reason why not use it.

Please enlighten me

Because it is not the way the maker intended it to look, and it just plain looks bad, even painful to watch. Just for the sake of filling in the sides of the screen.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7947/vlcsnap00001sc.png (http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3781/vlcsnap00001rc.png)

Notice how Red looks all stretched and fat?

It should look more like this:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2952/vlcsnap00003ss.png (http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/5919/vlcsnap00003i.png)

Another example

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/6417/vlcsnap00014169s.png (http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7748/vlcsnap00014169b.png)

Notice how Rod looks all stretched and fat?

It should look more like this:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2722/vlcsnap0001443.png (http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7712/vlcsnap00014f.png)

Again, the idea of having to watch content made to be watched at 4/3 stretched like that just makes me not want to watch at all.

[Prospero424]

Even though I'm almost always a "whatever you prefer is cool" kind of guy, I have to say that stretching 4:3 to 16:9 is one of the few things I consider plain unwatchable. I can handle bad encodes and poor quality, but when the picture is that radically altered, it just makes it impossible for me to enjoy it.

Just my 2c. I have no problem with it being added as an option in the future, but I don't personally think it should be a priority.

[Svashtar]

...I can handle bad encodes and poor quality, but when the picture is that radically altered, it just makes it impossible for me to enjoy it....

Well, this is exactly where we differ :) ... i can't stand poor quality and awful encodes, but i can perfectly live with chubby Red or whatever that guy is. For me the experience just doesn't change as it does with bad quality videos or, wtf, CAM rips or whatever.

I will also try to post some screens of what my picture looks like, because i don't think it is changed so much as it is on upper examples.

[twistybox]

The original video's aspect ratio should always be preserved, such that a square is always square and a circle is always a perfect circle, not an oval.

This can be done in two ways for 4:3 video presented on a 16:9 display.

1. Pillar boxed - black bars to each side, preserving the aspect ratio of the video. This should happen in "NORMAL" mode.

2. Stretched - the video is stretched proportionally so that it fills the screen. The left and right sides of the video touch the left and right sides of the screen and the top and bottom get cut off.

Other options will distort the image, but they should exist, such as FILL (what was displayed in the examples above). I would never use that mode and would never recommend anyone else use it, but it should exist for those people who want to fill their screen with complete disregard for how the image looks. ;)

[soundoftheground]

Can you two please shed some light on this matter as i simply don't understand why you are sooo against 16:9 for 4:3 content.

Did you even try it? As far as i can see, 16:9 is perfectly OK and i don't see any reason why not use it.

Please enlighten me

others gave examples and that's where i fall as well. it's not how the movie or show was intended to be viewed by the filmmakers. oh, and it just plain looks like shit. ;)

i was one of the users having issues with 4:3 and 2.35:1 content being auto stretched to 16:9 that was recently fixed with the newest RC. scrolling through my collection and just looking at the cover art for those shows and movies and knowing what was happening made me cringe, that's how much i hate altered aspect ratios...

[twistybox]

oh, and it just plain looks like shit. ;)

Right!

Desires of the director and producers be damned. The only reason is as plainly as you just put it. Altering the presentation aspect ratio just looks wrong, bad, crap, however you want to say it. :)

I absolutely cannot (and will not) watch a movie or TV with the incorrect aspect ratio. Unfortunately this is how the majority of people with 16:9 TVs watch their non-HD content.

[Svashtar]

Haven't seen any real and concrete reason for not using it in this thread, yet....it is a simple difference in taste and preferences...just like we can argu what's better - android or ios :)

For me, Kramer is still Kramer, on original 4:3 or 16:9 :)

I can only agree on one point - stretched one is not suitable for every clip/movie ... but for majority i really just don't care as the content is the point, not the picture....

[zorlan]

Older 4:3 content looks like shit anyway so why not stretch it? A larger viewing area to me makes up for the low resolution most older 4:3 movies and tv shows were recorded in. Most of those movies and shows only had a maximum resolution of 480...I also like my 4:3 in 16:9. Let me ask you guys this then would you prefer your HD movies in 4:3 or 16:9? Whatever the director chooses? Do you think he would choose 4:3 these days?

I can agree though very old classics are more enjoyable in their native format...but I have no problems stretching star trek the next generation...

[BlackwatchPlaid]

...but I have no problems stretching star trek the next generation...

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7535/vlcsnap00015b.png

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2880/picardfacepalmi.jpg

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1007/pukej.gif


i really just don't care as the content is the point, not the picture....

Then why did you spring the cash for a high definition 1080p television? Why not just use your old CRT television if the picture is not the point? When you are talking about movies and television, the picture is the content.

[squale]

is there a way to set the video size mode by 'default' so that each and every video I play (local, streamed, youtube, etc.) I don't have to go to the video settings while that video is playing and then change the screen to 'normal', 'zoom', '16:9', etc.??? this gets very annoying..

[Svashtar]

Then why did you spring the cash for a high definition 1080p television? Why not just use your old CRT television if the picture is not the point? When you are talking about movies and television, the picture is the content.

I'll tell you why:
because 99% of video content today is HD and i would rather blow my brains out than watch it on old 4:3 TV .... on the other hand, for 1% of other content i have in 4:3 i like the stretched version enough, no problem for me whatsoever.

Further more, i will repeat myself again: stretching is not suitable for every single content, that's where i agree. For example, i have no problem watching Seinfeld or X-Files in stretched mode, as the original quality is crap anyway...but on the other hand, any kind of nature programs and where the picture itself is the main point, i wouldn't stretch it.

Of course I agree that picture of every single clip/movie/video content is actually really the point (that's why it is in the box that can show moving pictures :) and we are hooked to it) but don't tell me watching Seinfeld or whatever nature/space (just examples) documentary has the same weight when talking about picture itself. The details and distortion when watching video that's nature oriented, yes the picture is the main point, but when watching any kind of series like Seinfeld - it's just the situations and everything around it that makes me watch it, not the picture itself - i don't think i loose too much of detail in stretched mode - and i laugh and i am satisfied just as i would be with original - oh, no, i'm actually more satisfied as i don't see stupid black lines all over my HD TV...

My last 2 cents, over and out (and yes, android is waaay better :p)

[twistybox]

Everyone is free to watch any video any way they want. That's the reason the options exist. But please let's not get into an argument about the benefits of watching distorted video. Distorted video is corrupted video, that's simply a fact. If you enjoy it that way, great. The viewer's choice itself is a philosophical debate and pretty pointless here.

SD content on my Television looks fantastic, so if it looks crap for anyone else, they might consider the source, the quality of the encode and the quality of their TV. I'll tell you right now that what I look at the HD TVs at most of my friend's places, I think their picture looks like garbage when they're using their satellite boxes. The problems are two fold - poor compression on the stream and an older HD set that by today's standards isn't very good.

Anyway, as I understand the OP, they claimed that what was missing from the aspect options was FILL. The ability to stretch a video and fill the screen such that each edge of the video touches each edge of the display. While it's not an option I'd use, I do think it should be available.

[twistybox]

Anyway, I'm going to make this post to hopefully clarify a few things. Yes, I do have better things to do... ;)

"Aspect Ratio" is expressed as a ratio of width to height.

There are three different "kinds" of Aspect Ratio when talking about presenting video.

Video Aspect Ratio: This is the ratio of the video frame when displayed and there are many possible ratios here. SD broadcast TV is 4:3 (aka 1.33:1) and HD broadcast is 16:9. Beyond that you have movies which can vary greatly. Some common ones are 1.78:1, 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 (this is super wide).

HD video source is 1920x1080, which is the same as its displayed ratio of 16:9

SD video source is 720x480, which is not the same as its displayed aspect ratio of 4:3, explained below.


PAR or Pixel Aspect Ratio is the aspect of the actual picture elements (pixels) that make up the video frame in the source material and your display. For computer graphics this is traditionally 1:1, where the pixels are perfect squares. Movies encoded from other sources without the Anamorphic option (which I won't get into here), digital photos, etc. For HD content this is also 1:1. For broadcast SD TV and DVDs, this is not 1:1 (720x480 is not 4:3). For 4:3 NTSC (North America's broadcast standard prior to HD/ATSC) it's about 10:11. As you can see, the pixels are actually narrower than they are tall. On a traditional TV the image still looks correct because the elements on the picture tube are not square, they match the video. When presented on a digital display which itself has a 1:1 PAR, the pixels are shrunk horizontally to preserve the video's aspect ratio. Otherwise you'd be looking at artificially stretched images if the pixels were rendered 1:1. You essentially get 640x480 which a lot of people will recognize as the digital 4:3 image size.

While computer displays come in many different shapes and sizes, they're currently all pretty much using square pixels - a PAR of 1:1.


DAR or Display Aspect Ratio is the ratio of your physical display device. In other words, of the screen's measurable size itself, not pixels. An HD TV set is 16:9 and an SD TV set is 4:3. Beyond that you have some other ratios as well. 16:10 for many wide computer displays and any number of ratios for things like projector screens, cell phones, etc.


Software like Boxee first of all needs to know the Display Aspect ratio of your display device. You need to set that yourself because there's typically no way for it to tell itself (I won't get into some technical possibilities to get around this here). Basically you are just telling Boxee what dimensions your TV set it. This setting forms the basis of how a program will use its settings to format the video for you. You can only achieve reproducible and expected results (comparable to other people's) by setting this with the correct value. It isn't a substitute for options to reformat bad videos or otherwise alter the dimensions/display of any particular video file.

Software will determine the video aspect ratio and pixel aspect ratio of the video based on how it's encoded and what flags are set up in the file. If the file isn't SD broadcast content (NTSC or PAL), ripped from a DVD, then it's generally going to be a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio with the video ratio determined by the pixel dimensions of the file itself (this can vary greatly depending on if/how the video was cropped).

Boxee will try to preserve the source's aspect ratio by default. So based on what it knows about your current resolution and your display aspect ratio, it will stretch or shrink the video proportionally, such that either the horizontal or vertical dimension will be maximized without cutting off the other dimension. In other words if stretching, it scales up until the first dimension hits the size of the display. This might perfectly fill the screen if the source video is exactly the same aspect as the display, or it might leave black bars. Top and bottom in the case of video that's wider, or black bars left and right in the case of video that's narrower.

Boxee offers a number of settings during playback that can affect the presentation of the video you're watching. The VIEW MODE controls ASPECT CORRECT scaling. This is similar, but not the same as the ASPECT control on your TV. That's because it doesn't include any pre-defined options that distort the image. This is where some people are finding something "missing" - they want an option to FILL without regard for the original video aspect ratio. Basically stretch the video until BOTH dimensions hit the size of the display. While this distorts the display, it is still a valid request for a feature. It would be very easy to include such a preset.

The other thing Boxee is missing which also confuses some people is the ability to set a MASTER PREFERENCE to control this for ALL VIDEOS. To do this properly and cleanly it would need to have some logic or it would require many options and not just a single ON/OFF. If you reference what I've mentioned above about different aspect ratios, you'll realize that you can't apply one scaling method to all content without running the risk of distorting some or all of your videos. Maybe that's what you want, maybe not.

An easy option would be to make the View Mode sticky and not per-video. That way, once that option is set, making a view mode change in one video would keep that setting until it was changed again, for any video subsequently played.

If you want something more versatile, but still with some automation, it would be the ability to apply different view modes to videos of different resolutions/aspects. That way you still wouldn't need to set this on a per-video basis and you might come up with some rule that completely satisfies you. Definitely an advanced setting and it's actually something I'd like to see myself. Not critical, but nice to have.

Anyway, the other options currently available for formatting your video when playing can be found by selecting the ADVANCED option under the view mode options. In here you will find ZOOM AMOUNT and PIXEL RATIO.

By using these advanced options you can format the video to your liking in lieu of a preset View Mode. It take a bit more clicking, but it's a nice work-around for now and a very nice thing to have for manually correcting those once-in-a-blue-moon odd videos, like some stuff that comes with the incorrect aspect directly from the DVD (some old movies).

PIXEL ASPECT is the important one here for adjusting 4:3 SD content. The PIXEL ASPECT referenced here is a multiplier, so it starts off as 1:1 which means it's displaying the source pixels (forgetting about the 720 reduction I mentioned before). If you want to get that 4:3 content to fill your 16:9 display you need to multiply it by.... 1.33. Just slide the Pixel Aspect slider over to 1.33 and your video will perfectly fill the screen.

If you had some recorded TV that was actually a 16:9 image within a 4:3 frame, you should probably re-encode it and crop the black bars, but you can, in a pinch, also use the one of the View Mode presets to fill the screen, chopping the black bars. If the black bars were not exactly defining a 16:9 image, you can use the advanced Zoom setting in addition to the Pixel Aspect to make a manual correction.

[aaronwt]

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Then why did you spring the cash for a high definition 1080p television? Why not just use your old CRT television if the picture is not the point? When you are talking about movies and television, the picture is the content.

eeeck!! Back in 2001 I watched my 4:3 content stretched on my HD set. It only lasted a few months. I'm surprised I lasted that long watching it stretched. There is almost nothing worse than watching stretched 4:3 content on an HD set.
Even back ten years ago, most of what I watched was HD. There is no way now, when almost everything I watch is HD that I would even consider ever watching stretched SD content.

[zorlan]

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Then why did you spring the cash for a high definition 1080p television? Why not just use your old CRT television if the picture is not the point? When you are talking about movies and television, the picture is the content.

The picture is the point and I like it better stretched man...it's bigger and I can see it easier. It think a better question would be why are you so concerned about my preference? Star trek is not all I watch...see now I am defending my reasoning to you which should be understood. Ridiculous.

What's your point? That you can somehow argue me into accepting and somehow shift my preference to match yours? How could you ever begin to argue someone's preference? I will not argue yours. If you like 4:3 unstretched, great I would agree with you that in your opinion it is better and you should watch it that way...

16x9 screens can display all formats, that is why I bought it to have the versatility. Guess what, I can even watch 4:3 content on it...but I want to stretch it sometimes especially with older 4:3 content. Some newever 4:3 content I prefer unstretched if the resolution and bitrate is higher. Hey I love having these options. If it doesn't look better to me, I'll leave it alone.

I also want pepperoni on my pizza. Is that ok with you? OR wait I should just buy pepperoni, because that all I really wanted based on your analogy.

The picture is the content? Not even sure what you are talking about here. You must mean, the picture is the point. Yes, I agree that it is. But I have a different preference once again.

As you can see I am not and will not argue this, it's pointless. I am curious though why you would like to. I think those pics of Star Trek you posted looked fantastic. I am going to watch that episode right now...and make sure I stretch it to 16x9. Wish you were here to watch it with me man. What a great series.

[zorlan]

I'll tell you why:
because 99% of video content today is HD and i would rather blow my brains out than watch it on old 4:3 TV .... on the other hand, for 1% of other content i have in 4:3 i like the stretched version enough, no problem for me whatsoever.

Further more, i will repeat myself again: stretching is not suitable for every single content, that's where i agree. For example, i have no problem watching Seinfeld or X-Files in stretched mode, as the original quality is crap anyway...but on the other hand, any kind of nature programs and where the picture itself is the main point, i wouldn't stretch it.

Of course I agree that picture of every single clip/movie/video content is actually really the point (that's why it is in the box that can show moving pictures :) and we are hooked to it) but don't tell me watching Seinfeld or whatever nature/space (just examples) documentary has the same weight when talking about picture itself. The details and distortion when watching video that's nature oriented, yes the picture is the main point, but when watching any kind of series like Seinfeld - it's just the situations and everything around it that makes me watch it, not the picture itself - i don't think i loose too much of detail in stretched mode - and i laugh and i am satisfied just as i would be with original - oh, no, i'm actually more satisfied as i don't see stupid black lines all over my HD TV...

My last 2 cents, over and out (and yes, android is waaay better :p)

This is my point exactly. Some of the files I have are not HD quality anyway, so stretching them helps me make out particular features.

[BlackwatchPlaid]

...taking this far too seriously...

I was simply trying to show how ridiculous it looks stretching a 4/3 picture 213 horizontal pixels with disregard for the vertical.

I think you seriously underestimate the quality of SD content, and probably have a bunch of overcompressed "scene" rips causing the "crap quality" assessment of SD material. Try making some uncompressed mkv or ISOs and sitting a couple more feet away from the screen.


....A whole big bunch of very useful information one should know and look through carefully when reading this topic...

It's refreshing to see that some of the senior members here know what they are talking about :)

[twistybox]

so stretching them helps me make out particular features.

I couldn't resist just this one... How do you know if you're looking at an American football or an international football (ie. soccer ball)? Luckily for you most video is also in color! ;)

[VitoTheTiVo]

Alright, to jump this back on topic a bit ---

Has anyone had issues with aspect ratios with DVD rips? In particular, the mpeg stream out of an .iso or .mkv? I have an issue where black bars are introduced at the top and the bottom of a 1.85:1 DVD when ripping and playing back.

From what I can see, Boxee's overscan settings, when set "correctly" push my tv beyond a 16x9 and introduce these bars with 1.85:1 DVD rips. However, somehow 16x9 xvid shows still display without any issue. If overscan is turned off, the DVDs match the picture frame, but overcourse then the Boxee menus look terrible.

This is all on a 1080p set with RC1 firmware running...

[BlackwatchPlaid]

Alright, to jump this back on topic a bit ---

Has anyone had issues with aspect ratios with DVD rips? In particular, the mpeg stream out of an .iso or .mkv? I have an issue where black bars are introduced at the top and the bottom of a 1.85:1 DVD when ripping and playing back.

From what I can see, Boxee's overscan settings, when set "correctly" push my tv beyond a 16x9 and introduce these bars with 1.85:1 DVD rips. However, somehow 16x9 xvid shows still display without any issue. If overscan is turned off, the DVDs match the picture frame, but overcourse then the Boxee menus look terrible.

This is all on a 1080p set with RC1 firmware running...

Are the bars rather slim? 1.85:1 is not 16:9 you know. It's more like 16.7:9 or 17:9. 16:9 aspect ratio is 1.77:1, so it makes sense to have very slim black bars when viewing with proper overscanning calibration on an HDTV. 1.85:1 aspect ratio is a little bit wider than your television's screen is, so to fit it horizontally, you end up with bars.

[VitoTheTiVo]

Are the bars rather slim? 1.85:1 is not 16:9 you know. It's more like 16.7:9 or 17:9. 16:9 aspect ratio is 1.77:1, so it makes sense to have very slim black bars when viewing with proper overscanning calibration on an HDTV. 1.85:1 aspect ratio is a little bit wider than your television's screen is, so to fit it horizontally, you end up with bars.

This must be the case. It's very strange that 1.85 DVDs play full. And then I guess that Handbrake's settings are cropping. It never really occurred to me that all consumer DVD players are cropping/underscanning. But obvs youre right 16x9=1.77:1 and 1.85:1=16.65/9

Bizarre. Oh well, letterboxed it is! I'd rather have bars and the correct aspect ratio of the film (not to get this thread back on that topic...)

[zorlan]

My DVD conversion program is telling me the source video is 1920x1080 and the output file also says 1920x1080.

Why then does it not fill up my screen? Is some 1080p content not 16:9?

I'm baffled by this otherwise.

[darcilicious]

Are you seeing black bars at the top and bottom? If so, the original film was shot in letterboxed and has been preserved (I forget the ratio numbers for that). The black bars are included in the resolution you're seeing reported.

(This is from the SageTV forums but you might find parts of it helpful: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=170478&postcount=5)

[soundoftheground]

My DVD conversion program is telling me the source video is 1920x1080 and the output file also says 1920x1080.

Why then does it not fill up my screen? Is some 1080p content not 16:9?

I'm baffled by this otherwise.

as darci says - if you're seeing bars only on the top and bottom the movie was filmed in a wider aspect ratio than 1.78:1 (16:9). 1.85:1 content will give very small black bars if your overscan is correct and 2.35:1 content will show larger bars. what movie title are you referring to above?

if you're seeing bars on the sides as well that is a different issue.

[zorlan]

Are you seeing black bars at the top and bottom? If so, the original film was shot in letterboxed and has been preserved (I forget the ratio numbers for that). The black bars are included in the resolution you're seeing reported.

(This is from the SageTV forums but you might find parts of it helpful: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=170478&postcount=5)

Thanks, that makes sense. I take it most older movies from the 80s and maybe early to mis 90s are like this.

[zorlan]

Black Rain is the movie.

I guess the 1920x1080 is referring to inside the letterbox only?

I dont have black bars on the sides.

[zorlan]

as darci says - if you're seeing bars only on the top and bottom the movie was filmed in a wider aspect ratio than 1.78:1 (16:9). 1.85:1 content will give very small black bars if your overscan is correct and 2.35:1 content will show larger bars. what movie title are you referring to above?

if you're seeing bars on the sides as well that is a different issue.

I think I understand this, but my confusion lies in the vertical and horizontal pixels being reported in my program. Is this still 1920x1080 but just inside the letterbox?

[soundoftheground]

Black Rain is the movie.

I guess the 1920x1080 is referring to inside the letterbox only?

black rain is 2.35:1
1920x1080 is the full 16:9 (1.78:1) resolution which is all the data on the blu-ray including the bars. the actual movie aspect ratio will be something like 1920x817