So is there no CBS or Hulu app now?

[joshuajonah]

Wanting to hack them apart and find out how they work, I went looking in ~/.boxee/UserData/apps/ and could not find any reference to "hulu" or "cbs". How could I be using them if it didn't download an app?

I figured maybe I hadn't installed them yet or something. So I go to `back_menu` -> `Apps` -> `sidebar` -> Show me `App Library` and search the list. No mention of Hulu or CBS here either.

Then I get a sinking feeling as I ponder how integrated these apps really are to show up on all the menus and such as alternative sources. Please tell me these aren't programmed in C and proxied to python classes that are used in the skin.

Are they no longer apps?

[agentlame]

I figured maybe I hadn't installed them yet or something. So I go to `back_menu` -> `Apps` -> `sidebar` -> Show me `App Library` and search the list. No mention of Hulu or CBS here either.
Hulu is missing from current builds, but my understanding is it will return in a future build.


Then I get a sinking feeling as I ponder how integrated these apps really are to show up on all the menus and such as alternative sources.
This is not something you can do with the python API. 'Sources' are part of the Boxee Show/Movie database and comes from the server.


Please tell me these aren't programmed in C and proxied to python classes that are used in the skin.
The apps are not, no. But, that has little to do with the TV Library, Movie Library, Feed and Queue.

[cogadh]

I don't know the gory details of how it has been done, but the CBS and Hulu apps really are no longer needed with the beta as all of their content is now available through the "TV Show Library" functionality (essentially the same functionality as Clicker, only a completely different backend). The only problem at the moment is Hulu's age restricted content; there is no way to log into your Hulu account to verify your age and access mature rated shows.

[joshuajonah]

Basically what I'm looking to do is modify the way the feeds are accessed in hopes of modifying some headers ;)

Where would I even find this? I'm guessing I'll have to wait for tomorrow, I'm more excited about that source than I am the actual beta.

[joshuajonah]

On another note, how is Boxee open source if there is no method for people to contribute to core? Even though the source is available for alpha, was there any possibility of anybody outside the company contributing? Or is Boxee labeled as "Open-source" because it's based off a true open source project?(XBMC)

[darcilicious]

On another note, how is Boxee open source if there is no method for people to contribute to core?

Open source means you get access to the source so therefore you can modify it locally. Open source does not guarantee commit privileges to any and all interested parties. I'm a member of a very active open-source CMS project and contributors to the core software are "vetted" before being given commit access.

[agentlame]

On another note, how is Boxee open source if there is no method for people to contribute to core? Even though the source is available for alpha, was there any possibility of anybody outside the company contributing? Or is Boxee labeled as "Open-source" because it's based off a true open source project?(XBMC)

Huh?

I'm not sure what you are asking, Boxee is OSS.

Boxee's servers are not. Boxee's database doesn't even belong to them, it licensed from IMDB.

Please be more clear as to what you are looking to do.

[joshuajonah]

Obviously yes, I understand that, but it doesn't take much to open a Trac instance and let people file diffs with their bug reports. Obviously only core developers who are "vetted" should be allowed to add these changes to the core, but why not use the community who wants to help?

Ok, lets take another large project for example, Django. Today I could report an issue, file a ticket, download the source, fix the issue, generate a diff, attach it to the ticket, and have that change in the trunk by tomorrow. Just some guy off the street fixed the issue.

Boxee is such a promising project but suffers from the most closed development environment I've ever seen for an open source project.

[darcilicious]

Have you tried submitting patches via http://jira.boxee.tv (well, maybe after the source is released again :) )

Every project is different -- and you may be right, Boxee may be on the extreme end of "limited" access to the core but that doesn't mean it's not open source.

[joshuajonah]

If I could just fix things on my own local instance I'd be happy, but I can't even do that, I have to wait for somebody to qualify my issue feature request, then make the change and then wait for the next release.

Yeah, I can go and download the source files for the alpha(and eventually the beta). But then i get in there and start looking for the meat of what i want to play with, only to find out it's inside a .pyo that is unreadable and apparently I can get "the un-optimized versions from SVN". Ummmm... no I can't.

Even in the alpha's current state, the source is not released.

[agentlame]

But then i get in there and start looking for the meat of what i want to play with, only to find out it's inside a .pyo that is unreadable...

Can you give me an example of compiled python you've seen in Boxee?


Even in the alpha's current state, the source is not released.
Yeah, no... The alpha sources are up, and have been for EVER SINGLE RELEASE EVER. Trust me, I've downloaded the source for EVERY version, and I've been around for some time. :)

[darcilicious]

But then i get in there and start looking for the meat of what i want to play with, only to find out it's inside a .pyo that is unreadable and apparently I can get "the un-optimized versions from SVN". Ummmm... no I can't.

Well that doesn't seem quite right. I wonder if filing an issue at jira would get the right eyeballs on the situation so that you could get actual source?

[mindisracing]

I feel this is a very big issue that needs to be addressed in the beta. I mean I know theres not THAT much restricted content on Hulu but there is enough that it bothers me when I can't login via Boxee.

[DPK]

Ideally what Boxee just needs to do with Hulu is exactly what they done with other sites (Digg, Netflix, Twitter) in your account settings. Basically allow Boxee to "link" into your Hulu account so that you don't have to authenticate ever when Boxee is running since it will already know your Hulu info. That'd also give it access to your Hulu queue, which in theory Boxee could push onto the new beta queue.

Is my rambling making any sense to anyone here? lol :p

[agentlame]

Ideally what Boxee just needs to do with Hulu is exactly what they done with other sites (Digg, Netflix, Twitter) in your account settings. Basically allow Boxee to "link" into your Hulu account so that you don't have to authenticate ever when Boxee is running since it will already know your Hulu info. That'd also give it access to your Hulu queue, which in theory Boxee could push onto the new beta queue.

Is my rambling making any sense to anyone here? lol :p

Yeah, but they are partners.

Storing user credentials for a service that is actively attempting to block your product can only end in with a C&D, at best; lawyers at worst.

Actually, this maybe the issue with the app... I've always wondered if Hulu might go after the team for that. Without reading it, I'm 99% sure it is a violation of the Hulu TOS.

[DPK]

Valid point and you're probably right about the violation of the Hulu TOS. Even if something's not in there, they can just amend it whenever they want and Boxee's screwed.

[mindisracing]

Damn you Hulu!

So can someone please break this down a bit for me? Doesn't Hulu WANT more people to view their content? Why do they make it so hard for you guys.

I know this info is most likely out there but I'd like to hear it from you guys.

Thanks a bunch...

[agentlame]

So can someone please break this down a bit for me? Doesn't Hulu WANT more people to view their content? Why do they make it so hard for you guys.


Basically, Hulu was one of the original Boxee content partners. After a few months of being in Boxee, and the CES show last year, the networks that provide shows to Hulu asked to be removed from Boxee.

Hulu blocked Boxee, Boxee put the smack-down on Hulu by adding XUL/Mozilla to Boxee, so Boxee's browser looked like Firefox.

Games were played, Boxee--mostly--won.

The current situation is a stalemate. Hulu content works for the most part, but the integration is sloppy.

[cogadh]

Why isn't Boxee just considered an "alternative web browser" under anyone's TOS? I mean, that's all Boxee is really doing when it comes to accessing Hulu content, so where is the problem?

[mindisracing]

Why isn't Boxee just considered an "alternative web browser" under anyone's TOS? I mean, that's all Boxee is really doing when it comes to accessing Hulu content, so where is the problem?

My thoughts EXACTLY.

WTF is the networks' problem anyway? I mean would allowing Hulu on Boxee REALLY increase viewing enough to make a huge dent? I mean the general population that uses Hulu probably does not even know about Boxee (not YET of course :P), so again I ask, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL. They need to accept that this is where things are going!!!!:mad:

[joshuajonah]

They are still at the mercy of the old media dinosaurs who think people are going to continue paying for cable when it is technically inferior to digital distribution.

They will learn at some point, maybe after a government bailout and subsequent mandatory restructuring, but at some point they will realize that if people want your shit, they will just take it.

[agentlame]

Why isn't Boxee just considered an "alternative web browser" under anyone's TOS? I mean, that's all Boxee is really doing when it comes to accessing Hulu content, so where is the problem?

That is how Boxee has positioned itself to Hulu. Actually, that is the exact phrase Boxee used 'alternative browser'.

[DPK]

WTF is the networks' problem anyway? I mean would allowing Hulu on Boxee REALLY increase viewing enough to make a huge dent? I mean the general population that uses Hulu probably does not even know about Boxee (not YET of course :P), so again I ask, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL. They need to accept that this is where things are going!!!!:mad:

In general, they're going to hang on to their business model as long as possible with a death grip. They've never been known to accept change very well or innovate. Hulu's mere existence is something of a bit odd in the first place.

Regarding "what is the big deal" it boils down to how the media on Hulu is being served up to site users. This has been discussed in various detail again and again on these forums if you feel like doing a search. Basically the content providers agreed to have an episode air in the Hulu player alongside the links to other episodes, clips, features, ads, etc etc. They didn't agree to just the player. It's a "total package" deal of sorts. That's what they get mad about.

[iblastoff]

living in canada, i'll probably never experience hulu :(

[DPK]

living in canada, i'll probably never experience hulu :(

*cough*proxy server*cough*

[darcilicious]

living in canada, i'll probably never experience hulu :(

I want UK content enough that I pay for a UK VPN service.

[iblastoff]

*cough*proxy server*cough*

ehh. the whole point of hulu to me is to access tv for free! i don't know of any free US proxy servers that are fast/reliable enough to use with hulu.

[joshuajonah]

*cough*proxy server*cough*

No need:
http://ohryan.ca/blog/2009/08/15/how-to-watch-comedy-central-videos-from-canada/

[iblastoff]

No need:
http://ohryan.ca/blog/2009/08/15/how-to-watch-comedy-central-videos-from-canada/

the comments say that it doesn't work for hulu.

[joshuajonah]

Works for me right now.

[cogadh]

Regarding "what is the big deal" it boils down to how the media on Hulu is being served up to site users. This has been discussed in various detail again and again on these forums if you feel like doing a search. Basically the content providers agreed to have an episode air in the Hulu player alongside the links to other episodes, clips, features, ads, etc etc. They didn't agree to just the player. It's a "total package" deal of sorts. That's what they get mad about.
Okay, I can sort of see their point on that (the whole "package deal" thing), but honestly does anyone really use Hulu (or any other service) like that? I know I simply put the shows I like in my queue and when new episodes pop up, I watch just that episode, complete with its built-in advertising. I don't really browse show pages for clips or extras, I just want the episodes. In this respect, the Hulu website is little more than a media player to me. I expect that is how most people view it as well... but I could be completely wrong.

[joshuajonah]

Hulu is the higher quality surfthechannel to me :D

[iblastoff]

Works for me right now.

hmm i just set it up as per the instructions. the site now loads and doesn't give me any of the "you cannot watch this content in your country blahblabhla". but upon trying to play any video, it just tells me "Sorry, we are unable to stream this video. Please check your internet connection and try again."

[NomadDNA]

Okay, I can sort of see their point on that (the whole "package deal" thing), but honestly does anyone really use Hulu (or any other service) like that? I know I simply put the shows I like in my queue and when new episodes pop up, I watch just that episode, complete with its built-in advertising. I don't really browse show pages for clips or extras, I just want the episodes. In this respect, the Hulu website is little more than a media player to me. I expect that is how most people view it as well... but I could be completely wrong.

I think there's more profit-minded thinking than we appreciate..

Consider google ads: Personally, I rarely click the ad links google provides after searches, but nevertheless google makes a fortune off those ads. In the long run, with billion of searches each day, theres going to be some percentage of people who fall into the ad trap... = $$

I imagine it's not too disimilar for Hulu: the more they can get users to browse to other videos, the more ads are shown, the more $ networks make, the more successful hulu becomes. If Boxee were to limit users ability to browse to other videos (**cough** not see more advertising**cough**), the less money the networks make.... and then no one wins :\

[mindisracing]

I think there's more profit-minded thinking than we appreciate..

Consider google ads: Personally, I rarely click the ad links google provides after searches, but nevertheless google makes a fortune off those ads. In the long run, with billion of searches each day, theres going to be some percentage of people who fall into the ad trap... = $$

I imagine it's not too disimilar for Hulu: the more they can get users to browse to other videos, the more ads are shown, the more $ networks make, the more successful hulu becomes. If Boxee were to limit users ability to browse to other videos (**cough** not see more advertising**cough**), the less money the networks make.... and then no one wins :\

Great point. You are right on the money with this.

[manifestdestiny]

I think there's more profit-minded thinking than we appreciate..

Consider google ads: Personally, I rarely click the ad links google provides after searches, but nevertheless google makes a fortune off those ads. In the long run, with billion of searches each day, theres going to be some percentage of people who fall into the ad trap... = $$

I imagine it's not too disimilar for Hulu: the more they can get users to browse to other videos, the more ads are shown, the more $ networks make, the more successful hulu becomes. If Boxee were to limit users ability to browse to other videos (**cough** not see more advertising**cough**), the less money the networks make.... and then no one wins :\

while i agree with those points i think everyone must remember that the TV networks don't WANT you to be watching Hulu on your TV, they would prefer that you watch the shows through conventional methods (cable, OTR, Sat). They only end up showing about 3 ads per Hulu show compared to about 12-15 during a regular show. Remember, Hulu is partly owned by NBC, Fox, and Disney (ABC). So everytime someone uses Boxee to watch a show on Hulu on their TV instead of conventional methods, the networks end up losing lots of ad revenue from the lost commercial time. I believe that the networks see Hulu as a nice addition to their current models, not as a way to replace it, and Hulu streaming on TVs will do exactly that. Things will only be getting worse if Comcast buys NBC...

[joshuajonah]

I believe that the networks see Hulu as a nice addition to their current models, not as a way to replace it, and Hulu streaming on TVs will do exactly that.

This is the problem, they need to wake up and adjust their business model to suit what people are actually willing to pay for. If they offered high quality shows on demand like Hulu on my TV, I would pay for it. Until they do that, me and many others will just keep using our RSS feed torrents. They could make money, but choose not to.