Beta for ATV?

[MikeyTG]

I got an invitation to the early beta but unfortunately I have to wait for an Apple TV version.

Will there be a notification when the ATV beta is available - do I need to sign up or will it be posted somewhere? There will be an ATV version, right?

Thanks!

[collinsroosa]

Hi MikeyTG,

You can search for this, but a couple of threads have questioned this (more or less) and the answer has been that the atv beta is forthcoming.

[kristallin]

The ATV version will be released when it's ready for semi-public consumption. I guess right now it's at that stage where it still needs diaper changes and regular feedings.

[judgeschambers]

Well, the focus is on getting Windows, MAC and Linux betas running well for the January 7 public beta release. ATV is secondary, but not lost. Just on the back burner for the timebeing.

We have our hands full with those three right now as it is. ;)

[webman2k]

Well, the focus is on getting Windows, MAC and Linux betas running well for the January 7 public beta release. ATV is secondary, but not lost. Just on the back burner for the timebeing.

We have our hands full with those three right now as it is. ;)

I completely understand your position, but I just want to say this makes me nervous. I've seen announcements like this end in the discontinuation of a product. I know it's hard to support a product that require a hack to install, and constantly battling software updates that break functionality, but please do not abandon this project.

This project has brought a fresh life to my AppleTV, and I'm sure many others would agree. The team has done some great work to make it possible for this software to run on unsupported hardware, and it's appreciated every time I can watch the daily show in 5 clicks, or stream any file format movie to my Apple TV just by throwing it in a shared folder on my Mac.

I'm excited for the beta, and even more exited for the future of Boxee.

[agentlame]

I completely understand your position, but I just want to say this makes me nervous. I've seen announcements like this end in the discontinuation of a product. I know it's hard to support a product that require a hack to install, and constantly battling software updates that break functionality, but please do not abandon this project.


Rest assured, there will be a build of the Beta for ATV.

That having been said, I think the future of Boxee on the ATV is shaky. No one has said this, and I do not speak for Boxee. However, no Movix, no Silverlight, no hardware acceleration and Flash doesn't run well. That puts the ATV in a tough position.

At least with Linux, we have decent Flash performance, and hardware acceleration... and soon, Flash hardware acceleration.

I'm not implying the team will EVER drop ATV support, but it is a tough platform to be on... and one that doesn't want us to be on it.

[judgeschambers]

Rest assured, there will be a build of the Beta for ATV.

What he said and what I said before that...:p

[JimWiley]

This is hopefully, just speculation. I'm waiting patiently for the AppleTV build, which I'm sure will arrive sooner or later (hopefully at least by the 7th Jan public launch date....).

As for the limitations of the platform, have you seen the work that davilla is doing on building Broadcom support? He can't release his work into the wild until Broadcom gives him the nod, but he already has the AppleTV playing 1080p with 50% or less cpu load. Check out the (monster!) thread on xbmc.org.... he even has the AppleTV streaming a blu-ray movie from a windows box to his AppleTV. Seems like the platform just got a whole lot less limited.

Obviously this is just for XBMC initially, but we have to hope Team Boxee bake in support somewhere down the line, don't we? If not, there will be a XBMC build that will do the job before too long...

Jim

[marcel]

looks interesting ...:)

[judgeschambers]

looks interesting ...:)

Yes it does.

[webman2k]

This is hopefully, just speculation. I'm waiting patiently for the AppleTV build, which I'm sure will arrive sooner or later (hopefully at least by the 7th Jan public launch date....).

As for the limitations of the platform, have you seen the work that davilla is doing on building Broadcom support? He can't release his work into the wild until Broadcom gives him the nod, but he already has the AppleTV playing 1080p with 50% or less cpu load. Check out the (monster!) thread on xbmc.org.... he even has the AppleTV streaming a blu-ray movie from a windows box to his AppleTV. Seems like the platform just got a whole lot less limited.

Obviously this is just for XBMC initially, but we have to hope Team Boxee bake in support somewhere down the line, don't we? If not, there will be a XBMC build that will do the job before too long...

Jim

Which leads me to think... why just install Boxee or XBMC on top of Apple's OS? WHy not just install a dedicated linux distro that runs Boxee or XBMC. With all of the functionality within these applications, who needs Apple TV OS? The only thing I get is sync with iTunes, but it's not that important, especially when I can stream anything to the box from any folder.

[judgeschambers]

Honestly, after buying and using an ATV since last June and now moving to an Acer Revo 3610 Atom/Ion.....I just assume through the ATV in the trash. I have not used it in over a month!

I'm not joking. After paying $225 at Best Buy in June for the the ATV (before the big Apple price cut), I wish I'd known about the Atom Ion machines. I would have saved my money and used my first gen Xbox with XBMC untill now.

Now, I'm not flaming the ATV, but it has issues to make it work well with boxee. And after spending way too much time and money on it.....I would not recommend it to anyone for anything.

Now, I welcome Boxee Beta to ATV. And I hope they can perfect some sort of GPU acceleration. But even then, I feel it's too much work for an underpowered machine. JMHO.

[JimWiley]

Honestly, after buying and using an ATV since last June and now moving to an Acer Revo 3610 Atom/Ion.....I just assume through the ATV in the trash. I have not used it in over a month!

I'm not joking. After paying $225 at Best Buy in June for the the ATV (before the big Apple price cut), I wish I'd known about the Atom Ion machines. I would have saved my money and used my first gen Xbox with XBMC untill now.

Now, I'm not flaming the ATV, but it has issues to make it work well with boxee. And after spending way too much time and money on it.....I would not recommend it to anyone for anything.

Now, I welcome Boxee Beta to ATV. And I hope they can perfect some sort of GPU acceleration. But even then, I feel it's too much work for an underpowered machine. JMHO.

Dude, I totally understand where you're coming from. I think the difference in our positions is that I've had mine since the 1.0 release. I didn't get it to have XBMC or Boxee (wasn't really aware of XBMC and Boxee didn't exist at the time). Therefore hacking the ATV to get these wonderful applications (and SABNZBD+ and Transmission running) has been an amazing bonus for me.

I do completely agree with you though, that if I was purchasing in the last six months or so, I would have been happier purchasing an ION box of some description (I've got my eye on an ASROCK for another room). But I've poured so much love and attention into my little box, I'm not willing to give it up! I'll get a Broadcom card and soup that mofo up!

It's the fact that I can leave it on overnight downloading and it uses a fraction of the juice that a computer would that is it's greatest strength. I have actually reduced my electric bill since I started using the ATV exclusively for downloads.

Not trying to be a fanboi, but i genuinely think it's one of the best purchases I've ever made!

Jim

[MikeyTG]

Wouldn't it be possible to configure the ATV to reboot into Linux and run the Linux version of Boxee? It seems like it would just require a dual-boot setup. Just day-dreamin.....

[MrHipster]

All of you bring up good options, but short of laying out more money at the moment for a new box, whether it be the Atom ION (thanx Judgeschambers for making me aware of that - it looks good, but not for Mac ...yet !) Boxee Boxee, etc, I am intrigued by JimWiley and Webman2K's comments regarding installing a completely new OS on the ATV since I never use iTunes.
Not being that tech savvy, is it possible to completely delete the AppleOS on an ATV and install a linux distro to use XBMC or Boxee, thus saving money for buying a new box of some sort at a later date.

[judgeschambers]

Jim,

I thought ATV was the best thing since sliced bread too. I guess my needs for a full HTPC sorta grew and forced me into the light. Once I got a taste of the Atom/ion machines it was like, "what was I thinking before." LOL It really depends upon one's needs and expectations. It is a good machine for what it can do.

What would be sweet fot the ATV is if you could run XBMC Live via a USB stick on it like you can Windows and Linux. Oooooor, better yet, a Boxee Live on usb. That would be bad ass if it existed. Would run faster with basically no OS, but it would still not have GPU acceleration issues.

BTW, the Atom Ion boxes use like <29 watts to run with utorrnet running. 50 watts running an HD video. When sleeping, it uses 1 watt! That's some power savings too. :cool:

[JimWiley]

Wouldn't it be possible to configure the ATV to reboot into Linux and run the Linux version of Boxee? It seems like it would just require a dual-boot setup. Just day-dreamin.....

Hi Guys,

To answer Webman and Mikey: yes, it is possible to a) install Linux on ATV b) have it boot directly into a minimal linux install c) install Linux drivers for the Broadcom card and have hardware acceration on ATV!

But there are caveats (aren't there always?): I have read the whole XBMC/Broadcom thread over on XBMC.org and will spare you the pain I underwent going through 70+ pages of it:

1) There exists no Live version or normal release with the hardware support yet. From what I read from Davilla's posts , you must compile your own from the branch that contains the code. Apparently it's not straight-forward - there is a second thread about the complexities of this approach on XBMC, it's linked from the first thread...

2) The Linux driver is, according to dev Davilla, not as good as the native ATV version. His advice: wait for Broadcom to allow him to release it for ATV. Davilla says he has 4 ATV's, 3 of which run ATV OS and only 1 that runs Linux.... this tells me something about Linux on the ATV!

So, it's either wait for a stable Linux Live-Type build with non-experimental Broadcom support, then overwrite the native OS, or wait for Davilla to release the official drivers and install them into your existing setup. Either way, for now, it seems like a wait!

Jim

[MrHipster]

Jim, now that the "new Normal?" looks like it's in for another change, and you have kindly given us the "Cliff Notes" for Davilla's project. Is Davilla working
with Broadcom on a Linux driver for ATV with Broadcom, or a "Davilla Box" using XBMC with Broadcom as another option to replace the ATV. As I said I will always be a noob, and need just a little more guidance on this, pls.
Bottom line for me is I just want to watch what I want to watch, when I want to watch it, without "Big Brother"

[JimWiley]

Hipster,

As of today, someone has compiled the CrystalHD branch to make a XBMCLive USB distro:


http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55042&page=89

see post #889 by user cck197.

He includes a download link to his version, plus a link to installation instructions for putting the CrystalHD card into your ATV.

Does this 'just work'? Well, you have to buy a Broadcom CrystalHD card from Hong Kong (see eBay) last time I checked. You have to open up your ATV and remove the wireless card (you'll need to use wired ethernet from this point on) and slot the Broadcom card in it's place. You'll need to download this guy's live release and put it on a spare 4GB USB stick (one that is known to work with the ATV - apparently not all do). Then your ATV should - according the the post's author, not me - boot straight into a hardware accelerated XBMC with SSH access baked in. Presumably, your underlying ATV system remains untouched?

Just for full disclosure, I don't yet own the CrystalHD card - I'm waiting for Davilla to release the ATV-native version before I spend my 20 quid! So I haven't tested the above release - can't say if it's stable, uses the CPU/GPU wisely, or has an acceptable response time whilst using menu's, etc. Keep watching the thread, people will no doubt try this release and post their reactions, opinions, etc.

You'd have to be confident in opening up your ATV and doing the actual physical card installation in any case. If this isn't for everyone, then the Judge's recommendation of something ION-based is probably best (I'm personally going to do this as well for another room)

Hope this helps you decide what to do,

Jim.

PS Davilla is not working on this Linux CrystalHD branch, this is down to others. He has personally ported Broadcom's own Linux drivers to work with the native-ATV OS. He has no intention of releasing his own box as far as I know... He's quite the fan of the ATV, which you can glean from reading his many posts (both here and on XBMC.org) It's down to Davilla (and a fellow developer) that we have launcher for the ATV that allows you to run Boxee from the ATV menu...

[MrHipster]

Thanks Jim,
I appreciate your explanation and opinion. I get it now.
I think I will watch the forum and see what happens with Davilla, and then in January and the ATV Beta?
For me, I like the ability to FTP by wifi over to the ATV, so I can "just go watch"
in the evening.
Guessing you're in the UK and have thick stone walls as I do, here in France, so its either adding another Airport, or drilling thru 80cm to pass the cable.
For the moment I'll just dream about which generation of "Box???" and all the features I want.
You think the remote on the 3rd gen Boxee Box or ION box will have a spout on the side for pouring a glass of Guinness ? OK ....maybe as an option !

[MikeyTG]

So, it's either wait for a stable Linux Live-Type build with non-experimental Broadcom support, then overwrite the native OS, or wait for Davilla to release the official drivers and install them into your existing setup. Either way, for now, it seems like a wait!


Jim,
Thanks for the lowdown on the issues involved. It does seem quite extreme to replace the entire OS just to get the GPU working! Waiting for a proper driver seems like a better bet.

In the end I guess the ATV is running out of steam and is being eclipsed by newer hardware, as is the way of all things tech. I could see keeping the ATV as strictly the iTunes extension it was meant to be and get a new, more capable little box for Boxee...

[JimWiley]

Jim,
Thanks for the lowdown on the issues involved. It does seem quite extreme to replace the entire OS just to get the GPU working! Waiting for a proper driver seems like a better bet.

In the end I guess the ATV is running out of steam and is being eclipsed by newer hardware, as is the way of all things tech. I could see keeping the ATV as strictly the iTunes extension it was meant to be and get a new, more capable little box for Boxee...

Mikey,

Some exciting news (sort of...). Check out this new thread on XBMC.org (dedicated to ATV XBMClive CrystalHD branch USB builds):


http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=64634&page=5

See poster #48. He claims to have his ATV booting from the XBMClive USB stick and he doesn't even have the Broadcom card yet. So, if you have a spare 4 GB USB stick laying around, you could try it... I only have a 2 GB one here and the disc image won't fit onto it, or else I'd have done it already. Some people report that it's a bit temperamental, but then this is the first crack at it and expect to see better, more stable builds coming soon.

I think I'm going to order my CrystalHD from eBay and then just use the native OS for all normal content and then if I want to watch something HD, pop in the Live USB and boot into the modded XBMC. Just until Davilla produces his drivers. It'll probably take a few weeks to get here, what with it being Christmas and all, but I promise to report back with my experiences once I get it on the go...

Jim.

[Quu]

I know this will sound insensitive but I'd actually like the Boxee team to drop Apple TV support. The device is poor and the only reason to buy one right now is for Boxee.

The default software offered by Apple is simply not what consumers are after. It does not play all the file types people have and you need to sync any media you do own with iTunes. This isn't a good implementation.

If Boxee dropped support for the Apple TV perhaps the sales of new units would dry up and Apple would decide to finally give it a proper update. I'm talking Optical Media, potentially a cable card, maybe Bluetooth and definitely 1080p and a faster CPU/GPU, most likely a Dual Core atom at this point.

And lets face it you guys already have your hands full supporting Windows, Macintosh and Linux before you get in to subcategories such as the Boxee Box and the Apple TV. As one of the Moderators mentioned in the first page of this topic the Apple TV beta is delayed so they can focus on Windows/OS X/Linux - Perhaps when the Boxee Box is released you can finally kill Apple TV support, again sorry to current owners of the Apple TV who are hoping for a new build but perhaps its time to upgrade to something that was made to work with Boxee from the beginning ;)

[MrHipster]

Quu,
Unless you've already seen my post, I think you'll see what will probably happen

http://forum.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=13591

[Quu]

I had not read that until now but it doesn't really give any final thoughts on the ATV issue.

[JimWiley]

I know this will sound insensitive but I'd actually like the Boxee team to drop Apple TV support. The device is poor and the only reason to buy one right now is for Boxee.

The default software offered by Apple is simply not what consumers are after. It does not play all the file types people have and you need to sync any media you do own with iTunes. This isn't a good implementation.

If Boxee dropped support for the Apple TV perhaps the sales of new units would dry up and Apple would decide to finally give it a proper update. I'm talking Optical Media, potentially a cable card, maybe Bluetooth and definitely 1080p and a faster CPU/GPU, most likely a Dual Core atom at this point.

And lets face it you guys already have your hands full supporting Windows, Macintosh and Linux before you get in to subcategories such as the Boxee Box and the Apple TV. As one of the Moderators mentioned in the first page of this topic the Apple TV beta is delayed so they can focus on Windows/OS X/Linux - Perhaps when the Boxee Box is released you can finally kill Apple TV support, again sorry to current owners of the Apple TV who are hoping for a new build but perhaps its time to upgrade to something that was made to work with Boxee from the beginning ;)

Wow, that's harsh! This thread has mostly been about installing a £15 (including delivery) card inside the ATV to allow it to do 1080p. Now admittedly I've made this thread mostly about that topic - but never-mind! Now I don't know about anyone else, but since this recession I've modified my tech-spending habits (read that as stopped spending) totally. I cannot justify spending £200-£300 on a new box, when the ATV does most of what I want now and with a little home-made speed-bump could do it all. I actually would like to get an ion-based platform and plan to sometime in the future, but for now I'd like to spend my £15, do a little bit of modding and have a glorious experience with my existing kit. Unless Quu wants to help a brother out with a little loan!

Seriously though, if Boxee supports 10.4 on Intel Macs (which it does) then compiling for the ATV shouldn't be a million miles away. It's not like the difference between say, Windows 7 and Leopard or Ubuntu 9.04 and Vista, for example. When the closed Beta is over and the source is in the wild, if Boxee do not offer a build for ATV, I'm willing to bet that some enterprising Boxee ATV user (of which there are many by definition due to the nature of the platform) will do a custom build for the ATV. We'll see....

Jim

[MrHipster]

Quu ..I misspoke when I responded 'what will probably happen' as we all know that in all things Apple...it is only Steve who knows that. It is more conjecture as to how much time we have with our current ATV, or as Jim says, how can we buy a little more time with our ATV investment.
We all know that all things tech have a limited lifespan, but IMHO I would like to get at least 3 years out of any device.
As I stated, I'm not happy with the restrictions and the evolution of the ATV by Apple, and I'm sure Apple is well aware of Boxee, and that it has helped them to sell more units, but at the same time they make sure each update breaks Boxee,if you forgot to block the updates.
I started this thread more as a hmmmm ? What are they up to? Is there something they are working on so secretly that it will completely revolutionize how we collect and view content or what ! When TV, as we know comes to an end, we won't be hearing about it on a TV !
In the meantime, I'm with Jim. I'd like some more time before I spend more money on something. Your kidding yourself if you think a decision by Boxee to drop support for the ATV is going to force Steve into a new strategy. At the same time,
someone with an ATV, way more clever than me, will figure another workaround.
Just like the supposed 'death knell for hackintosh netbooks' by the 10.6.2 Tiger upgrade.
I know you were not trying to be insensitive, but at the same time, this is a David and Goliath situation.

[Quu]

But do you really think the Apple TV is even worth wasting time on? As the mods have said it doesn't have GPU acceleration and this is where Boxee is heading. It has a very slow CPU and will never do 1080p without hardware modification.

I knew when the Apple TV came out that it would be crippled and that is why I chose to build my own media centre for cheaper than an Apple TV that is faster and fully capable of 1080p to run Boxee. I'd suggest if you own an Apple TV to sell it and get ready for the Boxee Box then you wont need to worry about hackers, if/when Boxee drop support for your ATV and other factors.

And what I mean by the Apple TV / Apple comment is just look at this forum the Apple TV section has 1000 more posts in it than any other platforms forum (Windows, OS X, Linux) it is by far the most popular hardware device to put Boxee on. And I do personally know people who have bought an Apple TV just for Boxee. In-fact I've seen people on tech forums selling Apple TV's pre-modded with Boxee installed. I'm just saying if Boxee was to drop support that the sales of it would definitely decline. I don't think it sells that well already to be honest. But this is just my own opinion.

And I do understand that we just came out of a recession but it's not Boxee that has to offer you a recovery package for electronics you bought in error and lets be honest if you bought an Apple TV you did so in error, its always been really poor. It's probably the worst product Apple actually sell. And I'm someone that owns an iPhone, an iPod Touch and a 17" MacBook Pro, I love Apple products and I'm using one to write this reply but the ATV is just rubbish and a waste of resources.

Now saying that if once the Boxee Beta is released that people want to modify it to get it working on the Apple TV that's fine by me, just as-long as the official devs of Boxee concentrate on other things instead of reinventing the wheel for ATV hardware acceleration like what has been suggested in this thread so far based on work done at XBMC.

[MrHipster]

Quu,

you make a lot of good points that I agree with, and also you obviously have the talent to build your own media center, which I don't. Also I love Apple products and own many, as well as Apple stock (my recovery package !)
We agree on almost everything, except that I'm hoping that we get at least a beta
for the ATV that will make a few more improvements until all the 'boxes' come out and we can see which rises to the top. I've only had my ATV for 14 months.
I never had any intention of buying the ATV for a lot of the reasons you mentioned and all the rest that we know, but I had bought "in error" and returned a number of 'media centers' built by other companies which were so impossible to configure, or just didn't work as promised, that I sent them back. I did my homework beforehand, explaining to their tech reps that I wanted a box that would work with an Intel iMac running Leopard at the time.
So already having Boxee on my iMac, I bought the ATV, set it up, installed Boxee, and via wifi and FTP, it 'just worked" and thus I cut my 'cable' and have been a free man ever since, as well as having the savings pay for the ATV.
Yea, I guess you're probably saying 'then it's paid for itself' so why not move on !
OK, now that I think about it that way - yes is the answer. But, I want a bit more time to see whether the Boxee box is the one, or as I said, which box is the best for me and won't need to be replaced in a year.
I don't view my ATV as an "error", I knew it's limitations,and Boxee, eliminated many of them, and for 14 months I've had an ez and enjoyable viewing experience.
OK, as you said, get the Boxee Beta out, and if Steve won't buy Boxee from Avner,
and come out with a 2nd gen ATV. The I'll buy a new box of some sort, whatever flavor, just as long as it 'just works" or else I'll invite you over to set one up for me!ß
good luck to all of us !

[JPDeckers]

Agreeing on seeing dark clouds appearing for the AppleTV in combination with Boxee, I must say that the device fully serves its purpose (for me).

For me, I don't need Hulu/Netflix (esp. as I'm not US based), I just want a cheap, fanless, small-form-factor streaming device. And the AppleTV is just that.

I have 3 AppleTV's connected to 3 TV's, and one big NAS server tucked away in a closet. This allows me to stream all my content (ISO's of DVDs and downloaded TV series) to the TV's, and sometimes rent a movie through iTunes.

If Boxee decides to drop AppleTV support at all because of CPU/GPU limitations, I will be sad, and I sure will miss the interface and some apps, but I also assume/hope XBMC continues to support it. Esp. now with the new XBMC confluence skin, I think it's a worthy replacement, and certainly has reached a WAF* > 1. And ofcourse, I don't NEED to upgrade...

I ordered the broadcom card from eBay to (hopefully) upgrade the living room AppleTV for more/better playback, but am happy to keep the other two unmodified (as we mainly watch SD content on them).


But as said, each to its own. Might still go for a boxee-box when it becomes available, but for now, I'm happy.


* Wife Acceptance Factor

[JimWiley]

And I do understand that we just came out of a recession but it's not Boxee that has to offer you a recovery package for electronics you bought in error and lets be honest if you bought an Apple TV you did so in error, its always been really poor. It's probably the worst product Apple actually sell.

Wow! I've owned the ATV since 1.0 (and I don't know how many years that's been) and I find your analysis that I "Bought it in error" a bit rich. I used to have an automated workflow on my Mac that downloaded what I wanted in any format (xVid, MKV, etc), converted it to ATV H264 720P and added it to iTunes where it automatically synced to my ATV. For many moons I was completely happy with this set-up (especially with music, which lets face it iTunes/NativeATV seems to handle better than most). Perhaps all that time I was enjoying 720p rips of my favourite TV/Films on my Telly I was mistaken. Perhaps I was hallucinating!

When Boxee came along it enabled me to do away with all the malarky of having a computer on all night downloading, having scripts to convert this and that and move on completion and add to iTunes. Did it offer me a recovery package for a device I'd happily been using for ages? No! If Boxee had never come along, I'd still be quite happily using my former set-up. However, I do love Boxee and I have loved hacking the ATV around to get it all working. It's been fun! And that's the bottom line: I'm a bit of a tinkerer - I make no apologies for it!

And I don't see why I should have to do away with Boxee on my ATV because you think it gobbles up valuable development time for your [insert favourite platform here]....

Jim.

[MrHipster]

Agreed JP........ on 'for now I'm happy'.
On my ATV, if I want to upgrade to the Beta of XBMC with the Confluence skin you just mentioned, can I just upgrade XBMC without messing up my Boxee install ?
thanks in advance

[JimWiley]

Agreed JP........ on 'for now I'm happy'.
On my ATV, if I want to upgrade to the Beta of XBMC with the Confluence skin you just mentioned, can I just upgrade XBMC without messing up my Boxee install ?
thanks in advance

Yeah Hipster, it won't affect your Boxee install.... I found the beta2 release to be the best one: currently the launcher offers update to the newer rc1 release, which does have the odd crash when playing back some online flash streams. No complaints about playing local content though.... confluence is pretty sweet - I have to agree with JP it's got WAF (although it's only GAF* in my case ...)

Jim

* Girlfriend Acceptance Factor!

[MrHipster]

Thanks Jim,
Haven't changed settings in months, so just go to Launcher, then downloads, then
rc1 and click ?
Hope you got my PM about the Broadcom story - didn't think it was suitable for the forum. Hilarious !
thanks in advance
andy

[JimWiley]

Andy,

Got the PM, but haven't looked up the story yet. I'll have a butcher's on Google later!

Yeah, it's just RC1 in downloads, the other XBMC in the menu is the last stable release - it's ancient, give that one a miss!

Jim

[MrHipster]

Thanks Jim for the advice
Ok, being a yank, translate 'a butchers' for me, pls
Thanks
andy

[JimWiley]

Butcher's Hook = Look!

[MrHipster]

Cockney rhyming slang...hmmm Jim, wonder if there is an iPhone app for that ?

[Quu]

Wow! I've owned the ATV since 1.0 (and I don't know how many years that's been) and I find your analysis that I "Bought it in error" a bit rich. I used to have an automated workflow on my Mac that downloaded what I wanted in any format (xVid, MKV, etc), converted it to ATV H264 720P and added it to iTunes where it automatically synced to my ATV. For many moons I was completely happy with this set-up (especially with music, which lets face it iTunes/NativeATV seems to handle better than most). Perhaps all that time I was enjoying 720p rips of my favourite TV/Films on my Telly I was mistaken. Perhaps I was hallucinating!

When Boxee came along it enabled me to do away with all the malarky of having a computer on all night downloading, having scripts to convert this and that and move on completion and add to iTunes. Did it offer me a recovery package for a device I'd happily been using for ages? No! If Boxee had never come along, I'd still be quite happily using my former set-up. However, I do love Boxee and I have loved hacking the ATV around to get it all working. It's been fun! And that's the bottom line: I'm a bit of a tinkerer - I make no apologies for it!

And I don't see why I should have to do away with Boxee on my ATV because you think it gobbles up valuable development time for your [insert favourite platform here]....

Jim.

You made scripts, had your files download, converted and then synced to iTunes just to get them on the Apple TV? - And you were happy with that?

Let me tell you how my setup was before Boxee even came about. My Server stored all my files and connected to my Media Centre via a 1Gbit Ethernet Cable. Media Centre cost? £200 and it includes Bluray playback. Using Media Centres such as Media Portal, MythTV or Windows Media Player (If I ran Windows on it) allowed me to stream content straight from my Server no mater what the file type was. And I could set my server to automatically capture TV and download files from Bittorrent and instantly make them available via its shared folders to my Media Centre.

Then Boxee came about and was able to read my content in. The Apple TV has always been a very poor media player. Apples entire reason for bringing this product in to the world was to sell more videos on iTunes that is why it lacks decent codec support. It wont even play ISO backups of your own discs that you buy and it lacks an optical drive entirely. And as you said you had to convert everything before you could play it, I can't believe anyone would buy a device that demanded you to convert everything before you can play it. Would you buy an iPod if your library of MP3's had to first be converted to AAC? Losing quality in the process. I sure wouldn't.

The only redeeming factor of the Apple TV is that its silent. But then so is a rock in a desert but its not very useful.

And yes I would like Boxee to concentrate on the other platforms. Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux are the core platforms they should be concentrating on as that would allow 3rd party boxes to be made that run Linux and Boxee for very little cost and would also allow all those Windows Media Centre owners to switch over to Boxee with ease. It's also a lot easier programming for an open environment than it is for the ATV.

You know Apple call the ATV their 'hobby' I don't know about you guys but I don't want to own someone else's partial infatuation I want a well thought out and executed product.

I notice another guy in this thread said he doesn't know how to build a PC but have you actually tried? You can't run until you try you can't drive a car until you try. It's not difficult there are even entire websites with videos showing you how to do it. 1 screw driver fits all screws, everything can only be slotted in 1 way its like lego and the most difficult part is picking which parts to go in to your media centre but that is what forums like this are for ;)

[MrHipster]

I'm probably the 'another guy in this thread', and no, I don't know how to build a PC, nor do I want to. I just want a product that works. I don't know why you seem to be going on and on running down the ATV, with a lot of old news, that was current a few years ago, but what's your point. We all know the ATV is on borrowed time.
Yea 'and one more thing' guess I've found a magic rock in the desert, because I've seen some great films on it.

[Quu]

I'm just trying to convey why it should be dropped. There comes a time in a project where you need to raise the minimum requirements and I think the ATV missed the boat.

And I don't understand how my information isn't current. Does the ATV yet support 1080p Playback? Can it play DIVX or XVID or ISO images without hacking? Do you not need to convert all your videos to be compatible with the Apple TV? I could go on but its not necessary we all know its had its day in the sun.

[deanhash]

I know this will sound insensitive but I'd actually like the Boxee team to drop Apple TV support. The device is poor and the only reason to buy one right now is for Boxee.

The default software offered by Apple is simply not what consumers are after. It does not play all the file types people have and you need to sync any media you do own with iTunes. This isn't a good implementation.

If Boxee dropped support for the Apple TV perhaps the sales of new units would dry up and Apple would decide to finally give it a proper update. I'm talking Optical Media, potentially a cable card, maybe Bluetooth and definitely 1080p and a faster CPU/GPU, most likely a Dual Core atom at this point.

And lets face it you guys already have your hands full supporting Windows, Macintosh and Linux before you get in to subcategories such as the Boxee Box and the Apple TV. As one of the Moderators mentioned in the first page of this topic the Apple TV beta is delayed so they can focus on Windows/OS X/Linux - Perhaps when the Boxee Box is released you can finally kill Apple TV support, again sorry to current owners of the Apple TV who are hoping for a new build but perhaps its time to upgrade to something that was made to work with Boxee from the beginning ;) You sir are being arrogant, insensitive and just plain RUDE! This is why I think the whole Boxee Forum is against the Apple TV community and the reason that we do not have a working BETA YET! If you want us to leave then just SAY SO!

[Quu]

You sir are being arrogant, insensitive and just plain RUDE! This is why I think the whole Boxee Forum is against the Apple TV community and the reason that we do not have a working BETA YET! If you want us to leave then just SAY SO!

.... You're kidding.

[deanhash]

YOU ARE BEING A SELF CENTERED ARROGANT CLOD! and have no feelings towards fellow members. We all give what we can even if we do not have the hottest machine on the planet that you seem to have.

[JimWiley]

I don't think his intention is to be rude, more that he thinks he's 'telling it like it is'.... I obviously don't agree with him, but it's his opinion. Although I think we should all ratchet it back a notch before it descends into the usual finger-pointing name-calling madness!

As for the previous poster's specific comment: The whole Boxee forum is not against the ATV or ATV Users. In terms of posts, the ATV specific forum has about as many posts as the Windows and Linux forums combined. There's an appetite out there for the ATV and a lot of the installed user base has ATVs. I don't think one guys' wish for you to junk your platform should be taken as indicative of the community as a whole.

Just my 2p!

Jim

[Quu]

It's just my opinion as I said many times. And I don't see how my system is that hot it cost £200. The Apple TV is currently £220.

And you can buy Media Centres online that will run Boxee very well for even less than £200 like the ones on the Boxee Blog.

[MrHipster]

Quu,

The ATV was first previewed in 2006 as the ITV, and then came out as the ATV at Macworld in Jan 07. Steve called it a 'hobby' back then and ever since everyone has been hacking it and trying to improve it , as Apple has been more concerned with other products which have gone on to become world changing.(iPhone) So when I said your information wasn't current, I meant that we have known what the ATV couldn't do since the beginning, thus all your info is old news and if anything Boxee has revived it, and for that reason many of us bought it, not in 'error' as you keep harping on, but because it does we we need it to with the help of Boxee.
It's a given, that a replacement is needed, but if you personally want full HD and many other options why are you wasting your time and ours on this thread, when all some of want is just a beta.
Ok, so let's look at today's latest rumors, that Apple might be trying to make a deal to stream content, with CBS, Disney, and the BBC, and probably others. That content would be by the old school monthly subscription method I'm guessing, and the delivery platform would be the ATV. Even though they discontinued the 40MB ATV, I'm sure they're going to continue to support the ATV, maybe update, and then maybe put out an Apple TV set (27" iMac) or a real 'television' with all the processing power needed for a full blown media center, or a 2nd gen box on steroids as another possibility.
Judging by all the time the Boxee team has given to get us to where we are, they want to keep their product viable for those of us who are content with it, otherwise Apple could possibly leave them out in the cold.

Just watched a great film on my 'magic rock', and enjoyed every minute.

[JimWiley]

QUU, I totally agree with you on the price-point. Truth is, I wouldn't pay £220 for an ATV now. No way! I'd buy something ION-based, as referenced in your post for about the same money....

What I would do is buy an ATV second-hand for £60-£80 and hack it myself. Add £15 for a CrystalHD card and you've got something that does 1080p for under a ton. What's not to love?!

My next one will be ion-based, because I'm stoked about trying to get a mythbuntu backend and a XBMC/Boxee frontend working on one and I know the ATV wouldn't hack it on the same box. Just need to bag a couple of compatible usb-tuner sticks and an ASRock and I'm off!

Jim

[Quu]

Quu,

The ATV was first previewed in 2006 as the ITV, and then came out as the ATV at Macworld in Jan 07. Steve called it a 'hobby' back then and ever since everyone has been hacking it and trying to improve it , as Apple has been more concerned with other products which have gone on to become world changing.(iPhone) So when I said your information wasn't current, I meant that we have known what the ATV couldn't do since the beginning, thus all your info is old news and if anything Boxee has revived it, and for that reason many of us bought it, not in 'error' as you keep harping on, but because it does we we need it to with the help of Boxee.
It's a given, that a replacement is needed, but if you personally want full HD and many other options why are you wasting your time and ours on this thread, when all some of want is just a beta.
Ok, so let's look at today's latest rumors, that Apple might be trying to make a deal to stream content, with CBS, Disney, and the BBC, and probably others. That content would be by the old school monthly subscription method I'm guessing, and the delivery platform would be the ATV. Even though they discontinued the 40MB ATV, I'm sure they're going to continue to support the ATV, maybe update, and then maybe put out an Apple TV set (27" iMac) or a real 'television' with all the processing power needed for a full blown media center, or a 2nd gen box on steroids as another possibility.
Judging by all the time the Boxee team has given to get us to where we are, they want to keep their product viable for those of us who are content with it, otherwise Apple could possibly leave them out in the cold.

Just watched a great film on my 'magic rock', and enjoyed every minute.

Okay dude whatever.

[deanhash]

Why can't we get along?

[NomadDNA]

Why can't we get along?

::hugs deanhash:: I LOVE YOU MAN!

[judgeschambers]

Quu,

some of your tech info on the ATV is not entirely accurrate. It plays more file types than you realize with little or no effort other than installing Boxee and making a share.
We get the cost vs performance differneces. But the ATV still has it's place and does fill a niche for many, even though it does have playback limitations. Those limitations being ones that you, and now I, are not willing to accept and stepped into newer machines. (Call it growing pains.) THat's why I moved on to the Revo. Though my mom and my friends would luv Boxee and the ATV.;)
I'm not engaging in any further comments or debates about the first two points. Done.
Lastly, back off. You have been somewhat insulting to others on this forum. There is no need to do that here. Stop the personal attacks. :mad:

[deanhash]

I love ya to.

[NomadDNA]

I love ya to.

See, Quu? That's how you spread the love.

[JimWiley]

Can I get in on this action? Group hug! Group Hug! Group Hug!

:)

Seriously, I love my ATV, you love your ATV's - lets keep this thread an ATV love fest/Beta trauma support group!

Jim

[marcel]

thanks guys for all the feedback and the loving ..the new beta out in a week or so will support ATV ..lets give it ago and then discuss it ...

[deanhash]

Sounds great and I am looking forward to it. I am going to be building a Linux media center soon so I can have another telly hooked up.

[JimWiley]

Marcel,

Thanks for stepping in and clearing that up. I think half the problem with Quu goading everyone about dropping the ATV as a platform is that we're all sat in the dark wondering if a build was coming along for us. We're living in fear and negative comments saying we should all be left in the cold are hard to swallow. Now we know a build is coming (and soon - yay!) I think we'll all be able to chill out a bit (and, hopefully, ignore super-negative posts).

Jim

[JimWiley]

Sounds great and I am looking forward to it. I am going to be building a Linux media center soon so I can have another telly hooked up.

Dean,

me too! Are you building one from scratch, or do you have your eye on one the ready-built IONs? I'm looking at the ASRock, but it's built-in IR isn't (yet) supported under Linux (and it comes in a Blu-Ray version - which also isn't supported under Linux....). Perhaps we can compare notes?

Jim

[MrHipster]

Well, that sure was fun ! Thank you to all those who participated in Boxee Beta for ATV....hmmm ? Love Fest. Bono just PM'd me and said he would help us do a song, for those of us who love the ATV and can't wait for the Boxee ATV Beta. He said we can stream it live, using his new stage and on Boxee.
And as always, Marcel .....YOU DA MENCH !
I'm waiting on "Steve's People" for confirmation on whether he will do a solo with us ?

[deanhash]

Dean,

me too! Are you building one from scratch, or do you have your eye on one the ready-built IONs? I'm looking at the ASRock, but it's built-in IR isn't (yet) supported under Linux (and it comes in a Blu-Ray version - which also isn't supported under Linux....). Perhaps we can compare notes?

Jim

Jim,
I am going to build one from scratch with all new hardware. I am not looking to get started until after Christmas and see what kind of cash I have to work with. I live here in the U.S. and times are pretty hard here in Maryland but I think I can scrape up some extra cash to fund this undertaking.

[Quu]

Quu,

some of your tech info on the ATV is not entirely accurrate. It plays more file types than you realize with little or no effort other than installing Boxee and making a share.
We get the cost vs performance differneces. But the ATV still has it's place and does fill a niche for many, even though it does have playback limitations. Those limitations being ones that you, and now I, are not willing to accept and stepped into newer machines. (Call it growing pains.) THat's why I moved on to the Revo. Though my mom and my friends would luv Boxee and the ATV.;)
I'm not engaging in any further comments or debates about the first two points. Done.
Lastly, back off. You have been somewhat insulting to others on this forum. There is no need to do that here. Stop the personal attacks. :mad:

First of all my information about the Apple TV not playing those file types is with it being stock without Boxee which I made plainly clear, my information was thus not in error.

And to say that I need to back off and have been somewhat insulting is ridiculous. I never made any personal attacks against anybody, please point out where I personally attacked anyone. Now if you need proof of people attacking me just look at the posts where I was called an arrogant self centred rude insulting clod. I would call that very personal.

I never once called anyone any names.

[pyrohtml]

I sincerely hope that Boxee doesn't drop support for the aTV over the next year. I've been fortunate enough to test all of the distributions of Boxee on a plethora of machine types over the past year (some very old).

With all of the testing that I've performed I still choose to use my aTV in my living room. I'm the first to admit that I do miss Hulu and Netflix on my box (which is why I will occassionally hook up my laptop to my TV) but those are the reasons why I plan on migrating to a Boxee Box as soon as I get the option (and the fact that I may be more of a Boxee fan boy than an Apple fan boy, which is saying a lot).

The sad truth is technology does age at an ever increasing rate and someday (maybe soon) our aTVs will be too dated for Boxee. I do anticipate great things from Apple and I believe they realize there is great market potential in home entertainment. All this being said we should simply pull our resources/knowledge together to get the most out of our boxee machines no matter what their hardware may be in order to get the most out of our machines and to make our home entertainment options in the future that much better.

Merry Christmas.

[JimWiley]

Jim,
I am going to build one from scratch with all new hardware. I am not looking to get started until after Christmas and see what kind of cash I have to work with. I live here in the U.S. and times are pretty hard here in Maryland but I think I can scrape up some extra cash to fund this undertaking.

Dude, I hear you about hard times. I doubt you'd find England very different from Maryland - I'm in the same boat as you, wait until Christmas is done (or I am!) and then see what's left in the (ever dwindling!) pot. The reason I was going to buy a pre-built system and then configure it my way is that then I can get something small and quiet to put on a small shelf in the bedroom. Can you build something with a small form factor, ion-based in a slick little case for a comparable amount of money as a pre-built? I'd maybe consider giving it a go...

Jim

[deanhash]

Jim,
I went to the ASRock website and checked out the machines they have to offer and they looked pretty sweet, I dig the form factor and the specs are cool too. I am thinking of changing my mind and going with one of those babies. I will keep you posted as to what my intentions are dude.

[d_ced]

Hi,

I've received my early access but the current build does not seem to support AppleTV.

Any release date for this platform ?

Thanks
Cedric

[cogadh]

There is a lengthy discussion of this going on in the Boxee Beta Issues forum:
http://forum.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=13459

[judgeschambers]

First of all my information about the Apple TV not playing those file types is with it being stock without Boxee which I made plainly clear, my information was thus not in error.

And to say that I need to back off and have been somewhat insulting is ridiculous. I never made any personal attacks against anybody, please point out where I personally attacked anyone. Now if you need proof of people attacking me just look at the posts where I was called an arrogant self centred rude insulting clod. I would call that very personal.

I never once called anyone any names.

Quu,

No need to take time to "point out." Calling "names" is not the only way to be insulting. Reread your posts if you must. Replies to you were after tolerating many of yours. What and how it was said is the issue here.

I'm not arguing about it further. Please stop. Plain & simple.

Thank you.

[JimWiley]

Jim,
I went to the ASRock website and checked out the machines they have to offer and they looked pretty sweet, I dig the form factor and the specs are cool too. I am thinking of changing my mind and going with one of those babies. I will keep you posted as to what my intentions are dude.

Yeah I'm lovin' this little box! I was originally looking at that brightly coloured little Dell thing (think it's called the Zino HD?) - but apparently there are problems under Linux getting the ATI graphics accelerated.

I think I heard someone on here mention the ASRock, so went off and had a look. Like I said only two sticking points: the HT model comes with a built-in IR receiver and MCE remote, which is neat. Unfortunately the IR Receiver chipset is not currently working under Linux (although the remote is!). Apparently you can use any old cheap MCE usb receiver and it'll even work with the supplied remote! That kinda sucks... There are people trying to get it working and there are other people lobbying the chipset manufacturer to release a native Linux driver for it. The manufacturer has responded that it is going to do something, but it's all a bit vague, with no timeline. I was thinking of picking up a MCE receiver/remote and using those until something is worked out and then switch back to the supplied remote when a fix is available.

The second sticking point is that the HT-BD model comes with a Blu-Ray drive, but you can't use it under Ubuntu/Mythbuntu. I'd buy a commercial Linux app to play Blu-Rays if one ever becomes available, but I don't know if it ever will. I seriously doubt there'll ever be a free open source one, what with the copy-protection issues involved... My quandary is I don't know whether to pay the extra for the BD model in the hopes that I can use it under Linux at some point in the future (or it will be there for me to use if I ever switch to another OS down the line).

What do you think about the Blu-Ray thing? I've mostly got my content from - ahem - 'other' sources. Although HD from these disks is meant to easily blow away other HD sources so I'm told....

Jim

[judgeschambers]

JIm,

We are really digressing off the topic of this thread....

I know that linux users really don't want to use Windows. And I respect that 100%. I'm not a linux user, other than my web and game servers I run, but after months of research it just did not make since to go the linux route. I was tired of piecing things together and "making" it work. Plus, I'd have to settle on some things not working at all (netflix). I just wanted to watch TV, man! :D But sometimes you just have to look at what just works. And the Windows Atom/Ion machines flat out do.

Unless you love tinkering, cursing :p, have fewer viewing needs....I don't see the reason to use Linux for HTPC usage. At least not yet anyways. On that note, my expectations exceeded what a Linux box or ATV could offer me.

Honestly, those expectations are why I banished the ATV and I stuck with Windows. I plunked down $330 on my Acer REvo, plugged it in, updated the Flash beta and silverlight. Set up fav's in IE for Hulu, fancast, clicker etc. Installed Boxee and started watching TV. Done. (Check my sig for my in depth review on the Revo in Action.) Boxee Beta is working quite well and I find I'm not using IE as much except for obscure shows not yet viewable in Boxee, which is what we want.

The Dell Zino HD is a great piece as well and works great. I'm considering it as my main PC replacement with a big screen. Little less power than quad core workhorses, but my computing needs have changed over the years.
Good reviews here:
Part #1: http://blogs.amd.com/home/2009/11/12/the-dell-inspiron-zinohd/
Part #2 http://blogs.amd.com/home/tag/dell/

Now before anyone flames me for this, here's the disclaimer: I'm not trying to be negative or harp on linux or users. Just stating up front that there are many unresolved issues and things that just don't work or work as well as on Windows. And I needed a machine that met all my media expectations (and I have a lot) with the least amount of issues, cost, and time.

So, ask yourself: What are your media expectations? And what machine & OS has the best skill set to meet them adequately? :confused: :rolleyes:

[Cacafuego]

Somehow after that very reasonable post I'm waiting for the "why do you hate Linux? Winblows sucks!" follow-up. =)

On the other hand, this isn't Slashdot or Digg. Users here seem way more mature than the average forum. So I'm probably wrong about the impending flame replies =)

[deanhash]

JIm,

We are really digressing off the topic of this thread....

I know that linux users really don't want to use Windows. And I respect that 100%. I'm not a linux user, other than my web and game servers I run, but after months of research it just did not make since to go the linux route. I was tired of piecing things together and "making" it work. Plus, I'd have to settle on some things not working at all (netflix). I just wanted to watch TV, man! :D But sometimes you just have to look at what just works. And the Windows Atom/Ion machines flat out do.

Unless you love tinkering, cursing :p, have fewer viewing needs....I don't see the reason to use Linux for HTPC usage. At least not yet anyways. On that note, my expectations exceeded what a Linux box or ATV could offer me.

Honestly, those expectations are why I banished the ATV and I stuck with Windows. I plunked down $330 on my Acer REvo, plugged it in, updated the Flash beta and silverlight. Set up fav's in IE for Hulu, fancast, clicker etc. Installed Boxee and started watching TV. Done. (Check my sig for my in depth review on the Revo in Action.) Boxee Beta is working quite well and I find I'm not using IE as much except for obscure shows not yet viewable in Boxee, which is what we want.

The Dell Zino HD is a great piece as well and works great. I'm considering it as my main PC replacement with a big screen. Little less power than quad core workhorses, but my computing needs have changed over the years.
Good reviews here:
Part #1: http://blogs.amd.com/home/2009/11/12/the-dell-inspiron-zinohd/
Part #2 http://blogs.amd.com/home/tag/dell/

Now before anyone flames me for this, here's the disclaimer: I'm not trying to be negative or harp on linux or users. Just stating up front that there are many unresolved issues and things that just don't work or work as well as on Windows. And I needed a machine that met all my media expectations (and I have a lot) with the least amount of issues, cost, and time.

So, ask yourself: What are your media expectations? And what machine & OS has the best skill set to meet them adequately? :confused: :rolleyes:

I might even stick with the Windows system because of the support issues. I was also looking at the Acer Revo and it looks very good for the money.

[kristallin]

So, ask yourself: What are your media expectations? And what machine & OS has the best skill set to meet them adequately?

I have to chime in on that since it's an excellent question. For me that machine has been the ATV, to be honest. Me and the wife aren't "hard-core TV viewers," we don't watch Hulu and not having Netflix isn't a dealbreaker for us - we never used it before. We're not too big on movies, and when we're in the mood it's no big deal to switch over to the ATV OS and rent one through iTunes. What Boxee offers us on ATV is access to some phenomenally produced independent content, video podcasts, TED talks, and Pandora (which runs probably 90% of our waking day) on our TV, and that for us is worth the price of admission. I'm looking forward to see what happens with the Crystal HD development over at XBMC and how/if it makes its way into Boxee, there's a Vegan cooking show I enjoy that's shot in HD that I'd love to see without the stuttering during the last 2, 3 minutes!
I'm also not necessarily interested in going out and buying yet another box. Our ATV was purposely purchased for Boxee, but if and when Boxee becomes unwatchable on the ATV I'll be grabbing a Boxee Box. Looks like that one should suit our needs just fine.

To add to this, Avner said in an interview that Boxee isn't a cable TV killer - I disagree (speaking from my humble point of view only). We had made up our minds to cancel cable after the first afternoon of using Boxee, and have now been cable-free for 6 months. For us Boxee completely replaced the cable box.

[judgeschambers]

kristallin

That is great! If ATV has/is everything you need and want...that is exactly what all of this is about! :D Excellent!

I too bought the ATV JUST for Boxee. It got me close....just close to cutting the cable. My family's expectations are much, much different than yours. And that's not bad. But we want it all....if possible. AFter months or research, the HTPC by Acer, AsRock, Asus were able to meet all of our viewing expectations on soooooo many levels. But, again, those are our expectations. :) And yes, my digital cable box is scheduled to be returned by next week.

The other thing is we run into is that some are trying to make hardware do more than it is capable of, but don't want to spend the money it takes to get there. Then blame the software or apps etc. Hence, unrealistic expectations. I see it all the time.

I think your example is the perfect one for buying and using an ATV. But if you want more, then you have to step into one of the $300 Atom/Ion machines. Which at that price point is tough to turn down for all the added content you are able to view because the hardware supports it.

Excellent Post!

[judgeschambers]

Somehow after that very reasonable post I'm waiting for the "why do you hate Linux? Winblows sucks!" follow-up. =)

On the other hand, this isn't Slashdot or Digg. Users here seem way more mature than the average forum. So I'm probably wrong about the impending flame replies =)

LOL, well per my disclaimer, it was not meant to be a bashing, but a realistic view of the reality of the OS. As great as it is, if you want it all like I do, Linux has some limitations that I could not live or tinker with. That's not a bad thing. It's pretty cut and dry actually. ;)

I don't expect a bashing either, but I had to go on the record up front. :p

Great points, guys.

[judgeschambers]

I might even stick with the Windows system because of the support issues. I was also looking at the Acer Revo and it looks very good for the money.

You simply can't beat it. Period! I can't toot that horn enough.

[JimWiley]

Guys, all solid points. Just want to be clear: I'm platform agnostic. I don't like all that 'my platform is better than yours' bulls@#t. You should use what you want that does what you need. Period. I have macs at home and windows at work and don't have a Linux install currently (although I've had them in the past). The only reason I'm looking at installing Linux on the ASRock is that I want something that is light-weight, tinker-able (apologise if that's not a word) and free! As in buying a system with no OS is cheaper than one with Windows.

Second, just want to apologise for dragging things so far off-topic. Just wanted to sound Dean out as someone looking for a new system like I was. Back to the ATV!

Lastly, the above poster sums up perfectly how I feel about the ATV - it pretty much does mostly everything I want now with Boxee as is. I would just like to watch the odd thing in HD - and for me the CrystalHD thing is looking more and more like the way forward in this regard.

Jim.

[deanhash]

Guys, all solid points. Just want to be clear: I'm platform agnostic. I don't like all that 'my platform is better than yours' bulls@#t. You should use what you want that does what you need. Period. I have macs at home and windows at work and don't have a Linux install currently (although I've had them in the past). The only reason I'm looking at installing Linux on the ASRock is that I want something that is light-weight, tinker-able (apologise if that's not a word) and free! As in buying a system with no OS is cheaper than one with Windows.

Second, just want to apologise for dragging things so far off-topic. Just wanted to sound Dean out as someone looking for a new system like I was. Back to the ATV!

Lastly, the above poster sums up perfectly how I feel about the ATV - it pretty much does mostly everything I want now with Boxee as is. I would just like to watch the odd thing in HD - and for me the CrystalHD thing is looking more and more like the way forward in this regard.

Jim.

Jim,
I am the same way you are as far as platforms go, I am looking for a system that will deliver what I need as far as boxee goes and one that will carry me through a few years with out worrying about incompatibilities in the near future. In other words a system that is sound and one that I know will work for the purpose that I intend to use it for in the near term for a descent price. I forgot to wish everybody Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas.

[judgeschambers]

The only reason I'm looking at installing Linux on the ASRock is that I want something that is light-weight, tinker-able (apologise if that's not a word) and free! As in buying a system with no OS is cheaper than one with Windows.
Jim.

Jim,

I seem to remember that the AsRock is the same money as a Revo & Win-7 installed ($330). Unless the AsRock comes in configs that are less $. :confused:

Yes, there should be no OS battles. But, sometimes ones expectations cannot be met with some OS's. And many battle trying to push them beyond its abilities. That's one of the reason I moved from ATV and did not choose Linux as the OS. But yes, whichever meets your needs best. :D

Heck, my mom seems to luv my old ATV and Alpha Boxee. For her it suits her needs just fine. I may just give it to her.;)

[JimWiley]

thanks guys for all the feedback and the loving ..the new beta out in a week or so will support ATV ..lets give it ago and then discuss it ...

Hi Marcel,

Just got the support e-mail detailing the new Beta build. Assuming that it would work on the ATV as per the above post, I installed it - but no luck! Just crashes out with exit 11 when it gets to the home screen. Is this build not suitable for the ATV or do I need to do something special to get it working? There's nothing ATV specific in the release notes except the visualiser crashing Boxee for ATV....

Or could the team not get it running on the ATV in time for this release? Will we be waiting till CES now? I'm eager to get bug hunting!

Regards,

Jim

[judgeschambers]

Hi Marcel,

Just got the support e-mail detailing the new Beta build. Assuming that it would work on the ATV as per the above post, I installed it - but no luck! Just crashes out with exit 11 when it gets to the home screen. Is this build not suitable for the ATV or do I need to do something special to get it working? There's nothing ATV specific in the release notes except the visualiser crashing Boxee for ATV....

Or could the team not get it running on the ATV in time for this release? Will we be waiting till CES now? I'm eager to get bug hunting!

Regards,

Jim

That release is not for use on an ATV. No word on when it may be released. Sorry.

From email today:
The currently available versions for download are:
- Mac OSX 10.4+ (Intel Only)
- Windows XP/Vista/7
- Ubuntu Linux 9.04/9.10 32bit
- Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmic) 64bit

[vcosta]

Thank you for your sincerity and take the opportunity to thank you for your continuous support in this forum and all the boxee community. Like A Webman2k we on ATV felt that boxee made our bucks worth, me personally felt ripped off when figured that ATV content was nothing but free, and boxee came to the rescue. I also believe that all the effort boxee has done (and all the good work professionals have put into it) will be rewarded big time but the fact that it brought to us so much free content and a system where we could view most video and audio formats via the white box, really came in handy. It's only logical that boxee has business plans too. That's how most "free" services begin, it's only good to dream that there is somewhere a team of people who can think outside the box (no pun intended) and there is technology to be made accessible to the masses regardless of whether they will be "conned" into paying through dripping pockets in one way or another. Again, thank you for your constant support. I make Webman2k my own words in every regard, and would love to see the beautiful new boxee to share with family and friends as been doing so far. Thank you Boxee!

[deanhash]

That release is not for use on an ATV. No word on when it may be released. Sorry.

From email today:
The currently available versions for download are:
- Mac OSX 10.4+ (Intel Only)
- Windows XP/Vista/7
- Ubuntu Linux 9.04/9.10 32bit
- Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmic) 64bit

Hello Judge,
I too got the invite email yesterday(boxee-0.9.20.10063) which read the same way:

The currently available versions for download are:
- Mac OSX 10.4+ (Intel Only) r10063
- Windows XP/Vista/7 r10063
- Ubuntu Linux 9.04/9.10 32bit r10069
- Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmic) 64bit r10066

I just wanted to make sure that I read your post correctly. I so want the ATV version.

[DPK]

I so want the ATV version.

Patience grasshopper. Patience. ;)

[deanhash]

In the mean time I will do some testing on the Windows Xp machine.

[JimWiley]

Hi guys,

Just a heads up, that Davilla has offiicially announced his work over on XBMC.ORG's blog:


http://xbmc.org/davilla/2009/12/29/broadcom-crystal-hd-its-magic/#comments

This must mean the imminent release of the Broadcom OS X drivers under the GPL. A google code page for the driver download has opened at:


http://code.google.com/p/crystalhd-for-osx/downloads/list

currently, no drivers are there for download, but if it's being announced on the XBMC frontpage, then it can't be too far away.... :)

I quote:


Through hard work and the joint efforts of several TeamXBMC/Redhat developers and the Broadcom Media PC Group, cross-platform hardware decoding of mpeg2, h.264 and VC1 video content up to 1080p will be coming to XBMC on OSX, Linux, and Windows via the Broadcom Crystal HD Hardware Decoder (BCM970012). The Broadcom Crystal HD is available now in a mini-PCIE card with ExpressCard and 1X PCIE form factors to follow. This means that the AppleTV and all those lovely new netbooks, Eee Boxes and older Intel Mac Minis have exciting new potential.

it continues:


Support has already been added to XBMC under the svn trunk. Our bleeding-edge users can expect to find the feature in the next nightly builds from our community builders, the more patient can wait until the next stable release. Other media projects such as FFmpeg, MythTV and Xine will soon follow as their developers add support.

hopefully this means that any player using FFmpeg will, in future, be able to use this accelerator. Exciting times for ATV owners!

This makes me very hopeful that Boxee will incorporate this support in future releases....

Jim.

[tlamarca]

That broadcomm chip support will make the ATV an even better product than it is today. I bought my Apple TV from ebay for only $125 including shipping. The only problem for me is that I use the wireless for my network connectivity. If I install the broadcomm chip for full 1080p, I will loose my wireless right? I thought that slot was where the wireless chipset plugged into the ATV's board.

Using XMBC 9.11 which is great and Boxee Alpha as well. Would like to try out the beta and I know it's coming...

*NOT ASKING FOR ANY INFO ON IT'S DELIVERY TIME JUST TO BE CLEAR* :)

Just saying that I'm interested in trying it out :)

[kristallin]

That broadcomm chip support will make the ATV an even better product than it is today. I bought my Apple TV from ebay for only $125 including shipping. The only problem for me is that I use the wireless for my network connectivity. If I install the broadcomm chip for full 1080p, I will loose my wireless right? I thought that slot was where the wireless chipset plugged into the ATV's board.

Using XMBC 9.11 which is great and Boxee Alpha as well. Would like to try out the beta and I know it's coming...

*NOT ASKING FOR ANY INFO ON IT'S DELIVERY TIME JUST TO BE CLEAR* :)

Just saying that I'm interested in trying it out :)

That is true, you would lose built-in wireless with the ATV, since there's only one slot and that slot is occupied by a wireless card. However, I believe I read in that massive thread on XBMC.org that an Ethernet-based wireless solution would work. I personally experienced better performance with my ATV connected via Ethernet cable, and since my ATV and my Airport are right next to each other I don't mind losing the wireless capabilities.

[tlamarca]

However, I believe I read in that massive thread on XBMC.org that an Ethernet-based wireless solution would work.

Just did a quick search on xbmc.org forum, didn't see anything about an ethernet based wireless solution...

could you elaborate on what this looks like or provide me a link? That would be awesome.

This also got me thinking that maybe I could get a USB Wireless Adapter for the ATV if I buy the broadcomm chip? I wonder if there are drivers for the ATV for a USB WiFi Adapter...

Since it's not necessary in most cases for the ATV to need a WiFi adapter, there may not be support for it.

Thanks!

[JimWiley]

Just did a quick search on xbmc.org forum, didn't see anything about an ethernet based wireless solution...

could you elaborate on what this looks like or provide me a link? That would be awesome.

This also got me thinking that maybe I could get a USB Wireless Adapter for the ATV if I buy the broadcomm chip? I wonder if there are drivers for the ATV for a USB WiFi Adapter...

Since it's not necessary in most cases for the ATV to need a WiFi adapter, there may not be support for it.

Thanks!

I have heard it recommended (although haven't tried it myself - I have a wired connection) that you can get an airport express for this purpose. Then it's wired Ethernet to the airport express, which then connects back to the mothership... apparently, if you use a USB wifi dongle, then the ATV struggles to playback media properly (I am assuming that the people who tried were trying to stream HD to their ATV). If you need it to cope with HD over wifi, then they say you need something like the express... Plus, I like to have a big old HDD plugged into my ATV and stashed under the TV for all my local content - I assume others have other things plugged into their single USB port as well - better to keep it free I think!

Jim

[d_ced]

Hi,

No updated new for ATV build ?

Thanks

[grey]

i hope the Boxee team will release the Beta for ATV!

and i have 2 more needs:

1. make rtorrent available for ATV
2. support the Broadcom Crystal HD module.

[jeaz]

Just did a quick search on xbmc.org forum, didn't see anything about an ethernet based wireless solution...

could you elaborate on what this looks like or provide me a link? That would be awesome.

This also got me thinking that maybe I could get a USB Wireless Adapter for the ATV if I buy the broadcomm chip? I wonder if there are drivers for the ATV for a USB WiFi Adapter...

Since it's not necessary in most cases for the ATV to need a WiFi adapter, there may not be support for it.

Thanks!

I think he meant something like this:
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=333

You use the aTVs ethernet cable, hook it into that thing which connects to the wlan. That one is 802.11g and is probably not enough for streaming 1080p anyways.


I for one truly hope that they continue developing Boxee for the AppleTV, especially now with Crystal/Broadcomm solution adding 1080p capabilities to it.

[agentlame]

i hope the Boxee team will release the Beta for ATV!

and i have 2 more needs:

1. make rtorrent available for ATV
2. support the Broadcom Crystal HD module.

rtorrent is no longer included in the Beta.

[Bray90820]

so how long do you think it will take before they get the apple TV beta out

[d_ced]

rtorrent is no longer included in the Beta.

Hi agentlame,

I had the impression that the ATV build was in earlier in sync with other builds and even released more rapidly than the windows version.

What is the issue today ? Why the ATV build is not yet out ?

Thanks
Ced

[Tallowby]

2. support the Broadcom Crystal HD module.

I second this BUMP BUMP

[bbhjr]

Since I CANNOT get the desktop version to work on my ATV, I will patiiently await the OFFICIAL ATV version.

My ATV was able to install the beta and it looks just fine, but it will not paly any content....just endlessly cycling yellow blocks.

I even overwrote the Adobe Flash with the beta Flash package, but also to no avail.

[vcosta]

Here it goes. It's tasted and proven it works.

http://forum.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=14664&highlight=boxee+beta+issues

Peace!

V